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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#231

Post by kleiba »

dheera wrote: post #178
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm not quite approaching 50 yet, but I am getting there. What I can tell you is that the reason for some older folk's views on new trends is not that they're generally behind times, it's that with more life experience you have seen trends come and go, and you're actually in a slightly better position to judge the baloney factor of novel things.

That is not to say that this is _always_ the way things are, of course, because everybody is not the same. But that goes both ways: like you say, there are tons of people who "get" newer concerns likes the ones you mentioned.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#232

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

dheera wrote: post #178
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Quoted post unavailable.

Being too keen on the current trends might make someone a bad culture fit, too. For some projects, social upheavals are either irrelevant, or a distraction.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#233

Post by okwubodu »

Manuel_D wrote: post #156
jedimastert wrote: post #50

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

Women's representation in tech matches the graduation rates of relevant fields. Which matches the rates at which women indicate tech as their preferred field in high school and middle school. I think it's in incorrect to say that they're "weeded out". That implies that women are being removed from the field, rather than exercising their own agency and choosing different fields.

> exercising their own agency and choosing different fields.

If we accept this as true, fields dominated by women should receive the same grace.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#234

Post by dheera »

Erik816 wrote: post #215
dheera wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you can't work with people who don't share your progressive politics, you may be the one who is hard to work with, not them.

I think there may have been a misunderstanding.

For many things, keeping up-to-date and at least having some opinion is what's important to align with some subset of the companies out there. Otherwise you have no culture to even fit to and align with nobody.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#235

Post by [deleted] »

throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

[deleted]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#236

Post by SCAQTony »

Of course, there is discrimination between the sexes, sexual orientation, nationality, politics, or any other religion or philosophy. People hire their friends, they will hire people of like mind, and fairness be damned. (Don't me get me started on age discrimination.) I think it is demonstrable that women have it tougher than in most fields, especially in the art world.

We are all created equal under law but who "watches the watchmen? And how do you regulate decisions? Even algorithms that declare a certain race percentage be balanced are discriminatory.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#237

Post by i_like_waiting »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

From perspective of fairly young hiring manager (25y old) it really depended on candidate. If you changed industries and you want to come in, more than fair. If you have 10+YoE and I know we don't play that much, why would you want to work with us? I am bit wary if those people are teachable.

Please don't take it offensively, I just want to understand better philosophy of people who do only lateral moves for 8+ years (not becoming seniors, not becoming highly paid).

If the case is "not everybody is looking to dedicate their life to work" then its more probable that I will hire young person, as they just might put extra effort, as they maybe haven't chosen the philosophy yet.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#238

Post by stodor89 »

umvi wrote: post #153
paxys wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of tech companies prioritize hiring women (whether officially or not) in roles like HR and admin to make their overall diversity numbers look better.

Can confirm, my last company's HR department was 100% women, but it still didn't offset the 90%+ male engineering department enough to satisfy DEI targets

I've been a programmer for 10+ years and I'm yet to see a male HR.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#240

Post by psyc »

antiverse wrote: post #48
throwaway0wha8h wrote: post #39

Throwaway. I'm happy to have more women in tech and hope it occurs or continues. However, virtually everyone recruiting in tech has observed some toxic diversity initiatives, I would venture. Some examples I have seen personally or one degree removed from me. - pressure on HMs to hire more women despite 95% of applicants being male - people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hir…

>- people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Not surprised to hear people saying this, but am surprised that nobody brings that up as a plainly racist/sexist thing when it is said. Bystander effect?

They’ll just say racism and sexism only exist in a context of oppressed and oppressor. It’s all been carefully worked out by certain academic intellectuals, long before it vectored into the mainstream (apparently by way of Tumblr)
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