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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

journals.plos.org

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#161

Post by glouwbug »

matt321 wrote: post #26
Manuel_D wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study found no discrepancies in mixed and male dominated industries. > Male applicants were about half as likely as female applicants to receive a positive employer response in female-dominated occupations. For male-dominated and mixed occupations we found no significant differences in positive employer responses between male and female applicants.

People are encouraged by society to discriminate against men.

It's more so that as a man society expects you to be self reliant at all times

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#162

Post by throwaway0wha8h »

Manuel_D wrote: post #156
jedimastert wrote: post #50

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

Women's representation in tech matches the graduation rates of relevant fields. Which matches the rates at which women indicate tech as their preferred field in high school and middle school. I think it's in incorrect to say that they're "weeded out". That implies that women are being removed from the field, rather than exercising their own agency and choosing different fields.

DEI industry relies on that narrative to support itself.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#163

Post by specialist »

This OC isn't grinding an axe.

I may be wrong, but it seems this paper's contribution is using analytical techniques (whatever "correspondence testing" is), with the customary roles reversed, to better calibrate those techniques. If so, I think that's genius.

So many times I've found myself facing a (ethical) problem with nothing more than noob wild-ass-guesses on how to solve it. Perhaps better understanding hiring discrimination in all contexts will help divine context-free rules. Neutral strategies we can all agree to use. That'd be awesome.

Because right now the only notion I have for tackling bias is using lotteries (eg sortition). And that's a hard sell even for me.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#164

Post by FFRefresh »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #84

Quoted post unavailable.

There are two moral views that intersect here in this poster's views (which they are communicating subversively through sarcasm):

1. "It's perfectly okay to discriminate against people based on things they can't control"

2. Generational justice: "Current individuals of identity groups that were advantaged or had members do bad things in the past, totally deserve to be disadvantaged or have bad things done to them now"

I do not agree with those.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#165

Post by tehlike »

jelsisi wrote: post #146
oppositelock wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost 50. I've been working in tech since 1996, and at this point, despite being a strong and seasoned engineer, I'm getting comments like, "it's different now", or "back in your day", etc, and the very young engineers fresh from school are the ones throwing this around. Those with a few years of experience under their belt don't. It's really disheartening, but it's also my job to train these bozos and turn them…

I hope these people are in the minority. I'm 21, I have my first internship coming up in the summer, and I am ecstatic to learn from engineers more experienced than me, no matter what age.

I am going to say this is an artifact of people not self-learning things on their own before the school or from a job.

I find in my earlier teenage years that internet was great source of knowledge. I read lots of blogs/articles etc from people 3x-4x my age. It made me appreciate them, not disrespect them. And for the most part, when you are on the internet, you really don't know what otherside even looks like for the most part - you only know in retrospect...

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#168

Post by SamReidHughes »

s_tec wrote: post #129
spzb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

I'm not the OP, but I'll bite. For many species, males have a higher standard deviation across a variety factors. There are biological reasons for this, since males are more disposable than females for reproduction. Think of one rooster for a dozen hens - this is still a viable flock, even if the other roosters get eaten. Nature can experiment more with males simply because the stakes are lower, and sometimes those e…

> There are biological reasons for this, since males are more disposable than females for reproduction. Think of one rooster for a dozen hens - this is still a viable flock, even if the other roosters get eaten.

Note that birds do not have mammalian sex chromosomes - males have ZZ and females have ZW - and females have been measured to have greater variability in birds.

So there is not really a biological reason as you say -- it just happened to go one way or the other in the past, and now different trees of species are stuck that way.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#169

Post by pgcj_poster »

ryan93 wrote: post #134
Robotbeat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was willing to listen to your point (that perhaps some companies favor women and so women disproportionately percolate to those companies… at least in theory seems like a possible argument, even if I’m skeptical) until you got here: >> Also, because the intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end, a company will be disproportionately male simply by being more technical and having a more difficult hi…

They weren’t dominate. The “computer programming” work they did was borderline clerical in nature.

Most computer programming is still borderline clerical in nature.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#170

Post by jokethrowaway »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #84

Quoted post unavailable.

You're kidding but this is exactly the problem.

Boys are taught they are "toxic" and young women outperforms women academically and on the job. Women in their 20s make more than their male counterparts - and then they complain they can't find a male partner who earns more than them.

The media tells them "the future is female" and that their behaviour is "toxic masculinity"; meanwhile, men are the most likely to kill themselves, to become trans (which is itself linked with a high rate of suicide, with or without transition), to die in war, to die on the job.

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