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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#81

Post by jimbob45 »

This is the wrong conversation.

The problem is not discrimination - the problem is that recruiters can do the dirty work of discrimination (or harassment or false advertising) and entirely shield these companies from lawsuit. The companies can simply claim ignorance to have known what was going on with the recruiting firms. The recruiting firms aren't big enough to sue. You wouldn't get anything out of them monetarily and you'd be unlikely to generate much publicity suing a recruiting firm that no one's heard about.

If we're going to move forward with this model where recruiters are run out of firms not associated with the company, the main company needs to be liable for any abuse on the part of the 3rd party recruiters they hire.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#82

Post by zozbot234 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #56
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I was willing to listen to your point (that perhaps some companies favor women and so women disproportionately percolate to those companies… at least in theory seems like a possible argument, even if I’m skeptical) until you got here: >> Also, because the intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end, a company will be disproportionately male simply by being more technical and having a more difficult hi…

> It has nothing to do with intelligence curves.

Agreed. A vast majority of supposedly "high tech" jobs are solidly average intelligence, including coding, so if anything women should be rewarded in such positions because males' wider variance in I.Q. cuts both ways. It's only pure delusional thinking that keeps up the "muh I.Q. is one of the highest" attitude among "tech" bros.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#83

Post by colpabar »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

[flagged]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#85

Post by [deleted] »

jedimastert wrote: post #50

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

[deleted]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#87

Post by chrchang523 »

throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

"Your margin is my opportunity."

Is this behavior significantly reducing the startup's competitiveness?

If so, this should be exploitable by a competitor. Assuming you don't have the bandwidth to directly work for or advise a competitor of this type, you might still be able to benefit as an investor.

If not... I have a hard time getting worked up about this. It's contrary to the dominant narrative, but if this female-dominated organization is actually doing a good job, I'm inclined to leave them alone and pay more attention to biases that actually harm businesses, because it's not like there's currently a shortage of those.

[additional note, in response to comments: I agree that this behavior still constitutes an injustice. However, among the numerous injustices in the world, one has to prioritize what to fight. My main point is that, as a practical matter, there are plenty of instances of biased hiring that ALSO reduce overall economic efficiency; let's fight those easier and more broadly profitable battles first.]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#88

Post by jrsj »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

I share these concerns as well, my advice to anyone that will listen is to save everything you can because this industry chews people up & spits them back out a lot faster than you would expect. And if you want longevity you had better try and get into management at a larger corporation.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#89

Post by daenz »

spzb wrote: post #43
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

They said distribution. It also skews more male at the lower end, as in, far more stupid men than women. The mean is about the same for each group.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#90

Post by IanDrake »

spzb wrote: post #43
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

Before everyone gets upset, this is a known fact and it's not a bad thing for women either.

The skew only means the smartest 1% of men are smarter than the smartest 1% of women.

On the other side of the curve the same is true. The dumbest men are dumber than the dumbest women.

That means a larger percent of women occupy the IQ sweet spot.

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