Quoted post unavailable.
Regardless of one's opinion, I wouldn't take laws as a good and definite source for my judgement.
History provides plenty of examples showing it can lead to some of the most inhumane behaviors we've seen.
Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
11–20 of 666 posts
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#12Quoted post unavailable.
Discrimination in hiring is always harmful, what matters is if its acceptable. If you don't hire a high school drop out to be a physicist, he is objectively worse off (harmed). Even if you assume that men are better off than women (I don't) discrimination is harmful (they are worse off), but they wind up still better off than the woman so its acceptable.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#13And in male-dominated occupations. Discrimination happens on the individual level.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#14Quoted post unavailable.
It can be harmful to individuals without being harmful to the group. Men aren't marginalized in society, but an individual man can certainly be discriminated against in a specific instance. If a hospital had a policy of never hiring male nurses that shouldn't be acceptable.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#15Quoted post unavailable.
No, the protected classes are things like "gender" and "race". It's baffling how many people seem to think that discrimination protection carve out exemptions that permit discrimination against men.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#16Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.
For some reason I suddenly have to think of Twitter and Firefox. Dunno why.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” That excuse might have been entirely accurate though. Most men are indeed not willing to participate in such a blatantly sexist culture.
Sure there are. Just not a blatantly sexist culture -they don't fit into-. There are plenty of male dominated companies, with male dominated recruiting teams, that still hire mostly males. To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay either way, I'm just disagreeing with the idea 'most men' won't participate in such a culture; most men (oftentimes unwittingly) do.
True, though the study addresses that point too, and that demonstrably does not happen, in Sweden at least.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#18Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.
So what, let'em choose to work with whoever they want. If it's all women, so be it. Only men? Whatever. I don't wanna work in either of these organizations.
I think the best answer to these divisive, sexist or racist behaviors is to show them in practice they're dumb, kick their ass in the market.
An open-minded, welcoming organization is going to attract the best minds. Collectively, these people will kick those ideological-driven asses.
EDIT: my point is we cannot legislate change to these people's minds. The only sustainable way forward is to let reality teach them. If we try to impose change like this, it'll only lead to more divisions in society.
If I see a lot of racist behaviors against blacks, or latinos or whatever, I'd be glad to join them and work hard to kick these racists out of the game.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#19Quoted post unavailable.
Diversity of thought usually results in improvements in quality of discussion. That does not hold true in this case.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” That excuse might have been entirely accurate though. Most men are indeed not willing to participate in such a blatantly sexist culture.
Sure there are. Just not a blatantly sexist culture -they don't fit into-. There are plenty of male dominated companies, with male dominated recruiting teams, that still hire mostly males. To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay either way, I'm just disagreeing with the idea 'most men' won't participate in such a culture; most men (oftentimes unwittingly) do.
Can you name any of these male dominated companies that hire men disproportionately to the gender demographics of their applicants/interviewees? The issue isn't the distribution of employees, it's whether there is sexism present or not and the first thing you'd probably want for evidence of sexism is disproportionate hiring of a demographic compared to their applicant/interviewee demographic.
Just because something is more represented by a demographic does not make it sexist. e.g. Nordic countries seem to be generally celebrated as being socially progressive and ridding themselves of sexism, yet female representation in STEM fields is incredibly low.