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TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#81

Post by jmoak3 »

vkou wrote: post #39
jmoak3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is also attempting to mobilize Indian workers before China's working population declines enough to be noticeable. The cost of business in China (regardless of international policy) is guaranteed to rise as the number of available hands decreases from mass aging.

No, the cost of business in China isn't rising because of demographics, it's rising because China is no longer an impoverished country. Wages in it have grown massively.

I was referring to the future, the demographic situation is guaranteed to raise costs. I'm sure the extra leverage China's citizens have from their earned wealth will play/is playing a part as well.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#82

Post by ketzo »

svachalek wrote: post #50
ketzo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more accurate, the pandemic showed that onshoring beats globalization... in a pandemic . The cost benefits were wildly outstripping the national security benefits before 2020! That's why globalization has thrived! I know that's the point, and I'm sort of willfully misinterpreting what you're saying. But the cost benefits of globalization aren't going away, and people's fears of the pandemic and supply-chain dis…

I don't think it's fair to say the national security benefits were tested before 2020. Risks are rarely considered until after they are exploited; everything that happens in an airport security line is based on something that actually happened before they added that requirement.

No, I know -- that's my point. They hadn't reaaaally been tested before, and they probably won't be tested again for a long while.

Regardless of whether it is correct to account for the risks of globalization, it's very unlikely that people will -- again, particularly when those people are participants in market economies -- because the risks are so infrequent, unpredictable, and catastrophic that people just don't like to think about them.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#86

Post by duped »

rektide wrote: post #63

Morris Chang (founder of TSMC)'s speech a year ago touched on 3 huge advantages Taiwan uniquely has. Having a whole, well-knit-together country with such intense knowledge & specilaization in making chips is something that would be extremely hard to recreate anywhere else. A community of practitioners is key. https://interconnected.blog/morris-chang-global-semiconducto... The United States had extreme success growing…

The first two points are at best opinion and and worst nationalism, neither are facts.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#87

Post by ketzo »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #58
ketzo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more accurate, the pandemic showed that onshoring beats globalization... in a pandemic . The cost benefits were wildly outstripping the national security benefits before 2020! That's why globalization has thrived! I know that's the point, and I'm sort of willfully misinterpreting what you're saying. But the cost benefits of globalization aren't going away, and people's fears of the pandemic and supply-chain dis…

I think this type of thinking, while relevant, ignores other hidden costs associated with off-shoring the majority of our manufacturing. 1. The environmental costs are not insignificant with both the lack of environmental regulation and added ocean shipping (yes, I know people are tired of hearing about environmental impact) 2. The humanitarian cost of offshoring our manufacturing is not insignificant. We may not hav…

Good point, and I think assembling all these reasons alongside national security risks is our best shot at actually convincing our governments to enforce some amount of change.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#88

Post by rednerrus »

joenathanone wrote: post #77
hoseja wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it possible to do this industry at less than razor edge?

The lithography machines and factories are prohibitively expensive, it can take years of production to break even, if you over build you may just end up in the red. Additionally the fabs have a limited lifespan when they are cutting edge and able to produce premium chips.

Then shouldn't the government be involved in ensuring we have what's necessary? Seems like strategic reserves are in order here.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#89

Post by Macha »

blihp wrote: post #75
hoseja wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it possible to do this industry at less than razor edge?

Because that's not where you end up in a world without numerous serious competitors.

I would generally assume a lack of competitors would lead to a decreased need to innovate and therefore fatter margins.

Re: TSMC head says drive to onshore chip supply chain is 'unrealistic'

#90

Post by christkv »

rektide wrote: post #63

Morris Chang (founder of TSMC)'s speech a year ago touched on 3 huge advantages Taiwan uniquely has. Having a whole, well-knit-together country with such intense knowledge & specilaization in making chips is something that would be extremely hard to recreate anywhere else. A community of practitioners is key. https://interconnected.blog/morris-chang-global-semiconducto... The United States had extreme success growing…

Do people just forget that intel has fabs all over the world with that expertise as well?
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