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What chords do you need?

jefftk.com

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Re: What chords do you need?

#61

Post by eatonphil »

usrn wrote: post #55
eatonphil wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started playing guitar in middle school and I hated learning complex chords so I'd do what this video suggested and just play the stripped down/simplified version of the chord. But it's not just about open chords. If you strip down a Bm7b5 to a Bm and play the Bm on the second fret it still has half of the character of the Bm7b5 chord. Only recently did I start gaining the patience to learn every suggested chord an…

IMO: It's much better to understand how to construct chords and then play music and memorize them by trying to play both the melody and some kind of accompaniment. You end up getting stuck in situations where you need to rearrange the chord or learn a new one and you can build them up that way without drilling.

I do know the basics of chord construction but it's still way easier to think through it on a piano because keys are all linear whereas with guitar strings you have to translate across strings with varying relationships. Not saying it's impossible it just takes more work to internalize that on guitar than piano. And I'm not there on guitar.

Re: What chords do you need?

#62

Post by titzer »

calflegal wrote: post #22

Trouble with this sort of thing is the subjectivity of 'what chord is this?', taking into account inversions and the like. CMaj7 has C / E / G / B? Who says this isn't Emin6 with the 6th in the bass? It'll depend on the way it's heard and its context within the song, but many approaches can impact this sort of thing. EDIT: I wrote this without carefully reading the article (oops!). Author does a great job with the "a…

That and sometimes chords/notes could be labeled either flat or sharp. I thought that was really an annoying ambiguity until it suddenly made a whole lot more sense--there are 7 letters for a reason; in a given key, we generally want to use all 7 letters to describe the scale tones, instead of repeating one. I think the same goes here, knowing what key the song is in tends to suggest certain chord spellings over others.

Re: What chords do you need?

#63

Post by PrimeDirective »

jefftk wrote: post #50
klodolph wrote: post #34

A couple notes > While it's almost always I, IV, V, and vi, we have both II/ii and III/iii, differing on whether the third is major or minor. This might be a bit confusing as written, because the slash "/" is normally used in roman numerals to indicate secondary chords. For example, the II chord may be written as V/V. (V/V is always II, but not the other way around... the "/" notation indicates that the chord is func…

> This might be a bit confusing as written, because the slash "/" is normally used in roman numerals to indicate secondary chords. Sorry, that's not something I'd seen. Edited the post to switch to "or". > The terminology "open chords" is also a bit unusual. The term "open chords" usually refers to chords that use open strings (strings that are not fingered). Looking some, you're totally right. I'm confused where I p…

> Calling them "power chords" in a non-rock context sounds off to me, though

Even jazz musicians call them powerchords

Re: What chords do you need?

#64

Post by dehrmann »

bambax wrote: post #15

The obligatory video is of course "Four Chords" by Axis of Awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I Rick Beato has kind of the opposite video about "the most complex song ever": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnRxTW8GxT8 The song in question is Never Gonna Let You Go by Sergio Mendes; plenty of videos exist of it; here's one live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOPh3bTglak

> The obligatory video is of course "Four Chords" by Axis of Awesome

The original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s13sASS5F4

Re: What chords do you need?

#65

Post by pohl »

uhoh-itsmaciek wrote: post #48
pohl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that the "4 chords of pop" observation reference in TFA (which is about how few chords you need to learn to be able to make songs) is a bit different than the 4-chord cycle progressions discussed in that Axis of Awesome video (which is about specifically using 4-chord-long progressions that repeat in a cycle) — but it is still a fun thing. If you do enjoy that, be sure to check out Patricia Taxxon's…

Three chords and the truth. Usually attributed to Harlan Howard [1], an early country music songwriter. A lot of early country music sticks to just I, IV, and V. [1]: (PDF) https://countrymusichalloffame.org/content/uploads/2019/05/W...

Thank you, fixed. That phrase flew right out of my fingers carelessly.

Re: What chords do you need?

#66

Post by progre »

jefftk wrote: post #50
klodolph wrote: post #34

A couple notes > While it's almost always I, IV, V, and vi, we have both II/ii and III/iii, differing on whether the third is major or minor. This might be a bit confusing as written, because the slash "/" is normally used in roman numerals to indicate secondary chords. For example, the II chord may be written as V/V. (V/V is always II, but not the other way around... the "/" notation indicates that the chord is func…

> This might be a bit confusing as written, because the slash "/" is normally used in roman numerals to indicate secondary chords. Sorry, that's not something I'd seen. Edited the post to switch to "or". > The terminology "open chords" is also a bit unusual. The term "open chords" usually refers to chords that use open strings (strings that are not fingered). Looking some, you're totally right. I'm confused where I p…

> Calling them "power chords" in a non-rock context sounds off to me, though.

Lots of powerchords in pop too. "powerchord", to me at least, implies that there is a distortion effect somewhere in the signal chain. Powerchords on their own sounds really weak.

Re: What chords do you need?

#67

Post by dehrmann »

mgkimsal wrote: post #38
alar44 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. Sting had a quote that was something like "All chords are ambiguous until I decide on a bass note to play."

Similarly, I remember McCartney saying he started to realize there was some musical control you could have in a song, not just having to play "root of the chord" bass notes. "Yeah, as time went on, definitely bass, I started to think, Wow, you know? Once I realized that you didn’t have to just play the root notes. If it was C, F, G, then it was normally C, F, G that I played. But I started to realize that you could b…

Regarding the opening chord of "A Hard Day's Night," George said

> It is F with a G on top (on the 12-string), but you’ll have to ask Paul about the bass note to get the proper story

Re: What chords do you need?

#68

Post by jefftk »

re wrote: post #56
TrueTom wrote: post #49

"In this video, I describe a common problem with the way guitarists cover popular songs by using open chords far too regularly. The trouble with open chords is that they often ignore important melodic and harmonic features. Hence, zombie chords. So dull they sound dead. It's spooooooooky!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWQNKbXHQk

> While it's almost always I, IV, V, and vi, we have both II or ii, and III or iii, differing on whether the third is major or minor. One way to handle this is just to drop the third from all the chords and play them open Note that what jefftk calls "open chords" are more commonly called "power chords" (or "indeterminate" or "no3" or "5" chords). This is a distinct concept from the open/"zombie" chords that that yout…

I've now edited the post to say "chords without thirds" instead of "open chords", which should reduce this confusion

Re: What chords do you need?

#69

Post by beepbooptheory »

klodolph wrote: post #34

A couple notes > While it's almost always I, IV, V, and vi, we have both II/ii and III/iii, differing on whether the third is major or minor. This might be a bit confusing as written, because the slash "/" is normally used in roman numerals to indicate secondary chords. For example, the II chord may be written as V/V. (V/V is always II, but not the other way around... the "/" notation indicates that the chord is func…

In general, the conflation of "chords" and "harmony" can be just little sticky, because one implies something the instrument is doing, and the other what the composer/band/piece does. An instrument might be making lots of chord changes, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is any overall harmonic motion happening.

Sure in rock'n'roll the guitar player isn't hitting the third a lot, but the singer almost certainly is!

Also, if you are playing modern jazz, you are not really doing functional harmony like this analysis assumes except at a very macro level. Chord changes there are about color more often, only punctuating with a true harmonic change. This can be true even if they are moving from, say, an I9 to IV9. That seems like a "change", but its really just elaborating on the I.

I seem to remember "open chords" in my brief counterpoint studies, but can't find anything to back that up now. But in counterpoint you could talk about the openness of certain "harmonies" in terms of their compatibility to any number of changes. Something with a lot of doubled roots and fifths are less open to changing, if you are following the "rules".

Re: What chords do you need?

#70

Post by acjohnson55 »

You see this in the design of the typical diatonic harmonica. That's why it's such a versatile instrument, despite its limitations (e.g. missing accidentals within its key, only able to play blow or draw notes within a given chord).
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