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IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

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Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#141

Post by WiseWeasel »

Lazlo_Nibble wrote: post #123
WiseWeasel wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. You can disable iCloud syncing for individual Apple apps, but 3rd party apps are all-or-nothing. You can't disable iCloud syncing for a single 3rd party app.

You can't? What's this screenshot showing, then? http://i.imgur.com/acOje.png (That's a serious question, BTW. I would check it myself but I can't upgrade to iOS5 until I figure out how to get Windows DEP to stop killing iTunes 10.5 every time I launch it.)

I didn't find that setting screen. Definitely didn't see that in Settings/iCloud. I wonder how you get to that... I only had a chance to briefly look at my roommate's 3GS on iOS 5; won't be on iOS 5 myself until my 4S arrives later today.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#142

Post by pohl »

dagw wrote: post #131
modeless wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Apple's bandwidth; it's users' iCloud storage, which costs users money.

Also don't forget that many people in world still (for whatever reason) don't have unlimited data plans. So if everything that get's downloaded also gets uploaded back to iCloud, then you've effectively halved their bandwidth quota.

I think iCloud syncing only happens over wifi.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#143

Post by pja »

muuh-gnu wrote: post #137
sudoman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

> If we were talking about free software, users would have control of their data; not some distant programmers Example Gnome3, which is free software, even a officially sanctioned GNU project. Overnight, a few key people decide to abandon the traditional desktop metaphor, against the will of a majority of their users and to the detriment of the whole linux desktop. The users hated it and are still hating it, but nobo…

Ubuntu has put hard money into an alternative to Gnome3, yet they chose not to put effort into Gnome2 either. Which suggests that perhaps Gnome2 has been abandoned for good reasons, even if you don't agree with them.

If you're not paying for their time (or willing to put your own time in), you don't get to chose how the people who are putting the effort in spend their programming time.

With free software, you have the option to do whatever you like to it, but no-one has the obligation to work on it on your behalf.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#144

Post by epo »

sudoman wrote: post #35
ender7 wrote: post #14

Apple's in a tight spot here - either they leave things as they are and piss off developers (and, by fiat, piss off users), or they have to start forcing users to more proactively manage their remaining space. One can probably easily imagine an interface for showing the user how much data a particular app is using and allow them to nuke the temporary stuff. It might even look beautiful. It might even be fun to use. B…

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

The older I get the less tolerant I get of wild-eyed zealots like this. This sloganizing reminds me of the Mao days when lots of impressionable youths would wave the little red book and unthinkingly chant extracts, this is really no different.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#145

Post by qjz »

Apple - iCloud - Your content. On all your devices.

That is the title of Apple's main iCloud page at http://www.apple.com/icloud/.

iCloud is seamlessly integrated into your apps, so you can access your content on all your devices.

This is Apple's definition for the iCloud service. It doesn't matter what the data is, it's your data and Apple is promising to sync it between your devices, to preserve your experience.

In the case of Instapaper, the solution is obvious: Put the files in Documents. That is Instapaper's content and part of the experience that users want synced between devices.

If Apple penalizes developers and undermines the promise it is making to users because it decides to be miserly about bandwidth, then it has to admit it launched iCloud before it was ready.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#146

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

pja wrote: post #143
muuh-gnu wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were talking about free software, users would have control of their data; not some distant programmers Example Gnome3, which is free software, even a officially sanctioned GNU project. Overnight, a few key people decide to abandon the traditional desktop metaphor, against the will of a majority of their users and to the detriment of the whole linux desktop. The users hated it and are still hating it, but nobo…

Ubuntu has put hard money into an alternative to Gnome3, yet they chose not to put effort into Gnome2 either. Which suggests that perhaps Gnome2 has been abandoned for good reasons, even if you don't agree with them. If you're not paying for their time (or willing to put your own time in), you don't get to chose how the people who are putting the effort in spend their programming time. With free software, you have th…

> With free software, you have the option to do whatever you like to it, but no-one has the obligation to work on it on your behalf.

Absolutely and that's the problem. Say my wife (not a programmer) doesn't like it, she isn't going to learn to program, understand the code, make the changes she wants and implement them.

While it's theoretically possible, it's so impractical as to effectively be impossible.

The number of people for whom free as in speech software is actually freer than close software is a very small percentage - for others, such as my wife, Android or Linux is no freer (as in speech) than iOS or Windows.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#147

Post by lukeredpath »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #139
lukeredpath wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can disable iCloud backup on a per app basis.

Weird. On my roommate's 3GS upgraded to iOS 5.0 (I've not upgraded mine yet as my 4S is arriving today), I did not see the screen shown in the screenshot linked in the post above in the Settings/iCloud section. There were toggles for all the Apple apps, but 3rd party apps seemed to only be able to be toggled all at once, with a toggle called "Applications and Documents" or something of the sort. How do you do it?

It is admittedly, on double-checking, a bit convoluted.

Settings > iCloud > Storage and Backup > Manage Storage > [DEVICE] > Backup Options.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#148

Post by LiveTheDream »

danssig wrote: post #138
muuh-gnu wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we were talking about free software, users would have control of their data; not some distant programmers Example Gnome3, which is free software, even a officially sanctioned GNU project. Overnight, a few key people decide to abandon the traditional desktop metaphor, against the will of a majority of their users and to the detriment of the whole linux desktop. The users hated it and are still hating it, but nobo…

Wonderful comment. This is one reason I always laughed at the argument "yea, but... we have all the source code!". Great, so the solution is we pay to maintain it? How is this free again?

This is an example of the difference between "free as in beer" and "free as in speech".

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#149

Post by nooneelse »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #146
pja wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu has put hard money into an alternative to Gnome3, yet they chose not to put effort into Gnome2 either. Which suggests that perhaps Gnome2 has been abandoned for good reasons, even if you don't agree with them. If you're not paying for their time (or willing to put your own time in), you don't get to chose how the people who are putting the effort in spend their programming time. With free software, you have th…

> With free software, you have the option to do whatever you like to it, but no-one has the obligation to work on it on your behalf. Absolutely and that's the problem. Say my wife (not a programmer) doesn't like it, she isn't going to learn to program, understand the code, make the changes she wants and implement them. While it's theoretically possible, it's so impractical as to effectively be impossible. The number…

But it is possible in the free software domain, for your new-Gnome hating wife to read a blog or article about other people who also hate new-Gnome and who have put together, or suggest, an alternative. That alternative can be as little work for her as installing something else from the package manager (which can be at the skill level of a search and point and click).

This doesn't take skill in programming, no more than (in the venerable tradition of car metaphors) it takes mechanical skil to know that the dealer can install the leather seat or roof-rack options for your car if you request that of them.

You drastically understate the percentage of people who have alternatives to choose from at their skill level.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#150

Post by vacri »

dextorious wrote: post #129
vacri wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're already at the happy middle. I don't design my phone hardware, I don't design my operating system, I don't grow my own food... ... but I am free to do all of those, plus free to modify all of those in the way I choose, should I want a better fit. Sure, I may have to be a dev, and have background knowledge in how to engage in some of those, but the capability is there. Granny Jones isn't going to shoot herse…

Yes, abstract freedom is great. Now, how about some real freedom. Like the freedom to choose the mobile OS you want, be it "restricted" iOS or "open" Android, or whatever.

Why is 'choosing your OS' "real freedom", but 'modifying your OS' "abstract freedom"?
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