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Penmanship

jaredgorski.org

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Re: Penmanship

#51

Post by daneel_w »

traceroute66 wrote: post #18

One of the most spectacular examples of penmanship I ever saw was sitting in a meeting with a lady who could effortlessly write phrases and paragraphs in italics... cursive italics ! It was perfect in every possible measurement. (And no this wasn't decades ago, this is 21st century). But I digress! I did also want to state that I disagree with the author's statement "Nobody writes it anymore" . Clearly the author has…

Italicized cursive was what was taught in Swedish primary schools while it was still part of standard education (meaning at least through the whole 1980s), and I suspect it was the same in many other European countries.

Re: Penmanship

#52

Post by secretsatan »

I was taught to write in cursive in France, a quick google seems to show it has it's own style.

But I always remember, I moved back to the UK when I was 8, my literacy skills were far higher than my peers in my new primary school. My new teacher did not like my writing, said it was too small, took away my pen and told me start writing with a pencil.

I was pretty good at cursive (so I thought), I still use it on the rare times I write but sometimes feel I need to print letters in case someone has to actually try and read it, so I pretty much just use cursive for my own notes, and it is messy as hell now. I forgot how to do all the nice capital letters they had too.

Re: Penmanship

#53

Post by mobiuscog »

> Most non-architectural hand-writers write the letter “P” with a single stroke: draw a small loop and extend the side downward to form the stem. An architectural hand-writer writes the letter “P” using two independent strokes: draw a small circle, lift the pen, and then draw a vertical line tangent to the left-side of that circle, extending downward. The resulting glyph is neat, deliberate, and replicable.

What about those of us who draw the stem first, and then the loop ?

Re: Penmanship

#54

Post by hammock »

> Most non-architectural hand-writers write the letter “P” with a single stroke: draw a small loop and extend the side downward to form the stem. An architectural hand-writer writes the letter “P” using two independent strokes: draw a small circle, lift the pen, and then draw a vertical line tangent to the left-side of that circle, extending downward.

Am I the only one who draws the downstroke first, then back up and draw the loop (without raising the pen)?

Re: Penmanship

#55

Post by dwringer »

srik wrote: post #43
NoGravitas wrote: post #17

> In penmanship class, we learned a standard cursive font. I think it’s the standard cursive font, in fact. He's wrong that there's a standard cursive. Different countries and different centuries have used a variety of different cursives. Most Americans who were taught cursive in school learned either Zaner-Bloser or D'Nealian, which both derive from Palmer. Both of them are terrible . They have indistinct letter sha…

This is a good comment. I do have a contrary opinion however as I generally recommend a spencerian derivative over an italic one to new learners these days. One could say simple Spencerian derivatives are like Rust with a steep learning curve to inculcate the core shapes into muscle memory but have lesser overhead during runtime owing to their dependence on muscle memory. Italic derivatives otoh more like Go, easier…

Great point about muscle memory, I found it fascinating to learn Spencerian as it kind of distills the essence of writing to a surprisingly low number of forms (7 or 8 I think?), a kind of local optimum for Latin-based cursive. The hardest thing for me to learn about it, with which I still struggle, is keeping the arm posture correct and using the upper, rather than lower, part of the arm for control.

I also found it really interesting to discover that the prescribed 52 degree writing angle for Spencerian is almost exactly what you get matching the diagonal on an 8.5" by 11" piece of paper (I'm surprised that's not more widely known!). Thus, rather than a difficult and seemingly arbitrary requirement, it's a super easy way of attaining consistency by simply rotating the page so its diagonal goes straight away from the writer. (If you're using US Letter paper, anyway)

Re: Penmanship

#57

Post by airstrike »

NoGravitas wrote: post #17

> In penmanship class, we learned a standard cursive font. I think it’s the standard cursive font, in fact. He's wrong that there's a standard cursive. Different countries and different centuries have used a variety of different cursives. Most Americans who were taught cursive in school learned either Zaner-Bloser or D'Nealian, which both derive from Palmer. Both of them are terrible . They have indistinct letter sha…

Here’s an image comparing the systems mentioned by the parent (excuse the .ru…)

http://www.calligraphy-union.ru/EditorFiles/image/news/66315...

Re: Penmanship

#58

Post by throwanem »

srik wrote: post #43
NoGravitas wrote: post #17

> In penmanship class, we learned a standard cursive font. I think it’s the standard cursive font, in fact. He's wrong that there's a standard cursive. Different countries and different centuries have used a variety of different cursives. Most Americans who were taught cursive in school learned either Zaner-Bloser or D'Nealian, which both derive from Palmer. Both of them are terrible . They have indistinct letter sha…

This is a good comment. I do have a contrary opinion however as I generally recommend a spencerian derivative over an italic one to new learners these days. One could say simple Spencerian derivatives are like Rust with a steep learning curve to inculcate the core shapes into muscle memory but have lesser overhead during runtime owing to their dependence on muscle memory. Italic derivatives otoh more like Go, easier…

What Spencerian derivative(s) can you recommend?

Asking because I think I've got about as much benefit as I'm going to from having used a fountain pen exclusively for the last five or so years, so I'm looking at this point to learn a proper script. It sounds like you're considerably more familiar and may know some good places to start, and I'm hoping to get the benefit of your experience.

Re: Penmanship

#59

Post by dkarl »

gilleain wrote: post #7

Oddly enough I used to write my '0' like an 'O', until I started writing down a lot of chemical structures with numbered atoms. I had to distinguish between the 0 label and the 'O' of an oxygen. I've now adopted the 0 as the way to do it :) edit: Ok, so HN font as displayed does not show the bar across the 0, even though the editor does ...

I (an American) picked up the European 1 and 7 in college but gave them up when I left school because they confuse people. I still use them when I'm doing math or doing anything where numbers and letters might be confused.

Re: Penmanship

#60

Post by throwanem »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #33
dwringer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I made a conscious effort to improve my handwriting and got a few fountain pens, to me transitioning from D'Nealian to a Spencerian variant was pretty easy and I think the latter is faster, more legible, and more comfortable to write. Although the differences are more significant IMHO if using a fountain pen.

I'd toyed with fountain pens on and off for twenty years. In 2019, I dug an old Waterman Expert out of my closet, watched some videos for how to use bottled ink and converters and off I went into the hobby. I still use traditional late 20th century American cursive (D'Nealian, I think), but all the practice with fountain pens has made my handwriting more legible than it's been in a long time. Cursive came about becau…

Likewise! And if you've yet to try a Vanishing Point or a Decimo, you've got a pleasant surprise in store, I think - I've found them nearly perfect for work notes in particular thanks to their speed and ease of one-handed operation.

(The Vanishing Point was admittedly a little too big and heavy for comfort, but a Decimo has the same nib and mechanism in a lighter, narrower body. Looks a lot more elegant, too, with the smoother rounding of the shoulder.)

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