Live data from Hacker News

Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

hype4.academy

151–160 of 204 posts

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#151
Good article with some interesting conceptual theory and visual examples!

I'm a Gumroad user and I do like their admin panel because it follows this kind of style. I'd personally call it "pop-art inspired" rather than giving it a label however. I'm sure I saw a similarly detailed article from another site talking about "glassmorphism", and that never really took off.

There's a page builder that's built with this kind of neo-Geocities aesthetic that's pretty fun:

https://build.mmm.page/

(prior HN discussion about mmm.page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27128424#27131476

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#152
post #22

> People simply get bored with how their apps and websites look after six to seven years. They need a change. Is there any research that supports this claim? If I use an app for 6 years, why would I suddenly need a change? I'm still ocassionally using a 10 y/o version of Photoshop. In fact, I'm very happy that it does not change. I wouldn't want to spend time on re-learning the UI. The same is true for many apps that…

> why would I suddenly need a change? Because your designers need a reason to still exist, and redesigning an entire application is what that reason becomes.

If this was true, why don't product managers just hand design tasks over to Fiverr or Upwork? Surely everyone would be happy if you only paid for design when you needed it.

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#153

Gumroad's design is an utter monstrosity that intentionally pulls attention away from the products people are selling to the chrome of the marketplace. It's the Gumroad designers saying look at us we're special while giving a big fuck you to their customers who now have to fight for attention with the UI of the web store they're selling on. There's also nothing brutalist about this style - it's a lift from the zine i…

I agree that the Gumroad design is inspired by '90s entertainment magazines, esp those focused on radio and pop music. I have a sister who had a giant collection of them.

But we disagree on the Gumroad design. I'm a seller on it and while I don't know what the old interface looks like, I have no issue managing orders. Visually it's more than clear, and it stands out as a platform for indie makers. I know enterprise UI all too well, and I was pleasantly surprised that that Gumroad doesn't follow that "Hey we're a SaaS valued at $10bn" design blandscape.

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#155
post #48

> Brutalism is a 1950’s architectural trend that was abandoning all decorations, and creating brutally simple buildings made from concrete. They often weren’t even painted to emphasize their brutal nature. So big, brutal blocks of concrete. The word "brut" came from French "Béton brut" which means "raw concrete" — has nothing with how "brutal" we perceive it to be. There's lots of architecture articles covering this…

For architects this is a popular shibboleth. If you imply that "brutalism" is related to "brutal" then you'll be perceived as an outsider that doesn't have any real design knowledge. This is like implying Java and JavaScript are related.

Of course the real thing to know here on Javascript is that they are related. Eich's crazy scripting language "Livescript" was going to exist independently, but then there was a chance to ride on the coattails of the Java enthusiasm, to do that it needed the inappropriate name, and it needed syntax that looks enough like a semicolon language even though it's a Lisp.

Some of the obvious defects in Javascript are (at least if you believe people who were there) excused because Brendan had a tight deadline to ship this or else Netscape would go with the plan where Sun's Java is more closely integrated instead of Eich's Lisp scripting. Every day spent making Javascript less awful is additional risk an executive says no, we are going with Sun on this, stop work on Javascript.

I don't know if there's an equivalently nuanced story for Brutalism.

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#156
post #48

> Brutalism is a 1950’s architectural trend that was abandoning all decorations, and creating brutally simple buildings made from concrete. They often weren’t even painted to emphasize their brutal nature. So big, brutal blocks of concrete. The word "brut" came from French "Béton brut" which means "raw concrete" — has nothing with how "brutal" we perceive it to be. There's lots of architecture articles covering this…

For architects this is a popular shibboleth. If you imply that "brutalism" is related to "brutal" then you'll be perceived as an outsider that doesn't have any real design knowledge. This is like implying Java and JavaScript are related.

>This is like implying Java and JavaScript are related.

Which they are. https://wiki.c2.com/?AlgolFamily

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't there be a middle ground? I have a real hard time with the flat low-contrast design that's everywhere. The low contrast material design makes it incredibly difficult to navigate, you constantly have to guess what is a button and what is not. I think something like Windows 95 is peak interface design. Sounds facetious but think about it: Controls are clearly distinguished from content with not only colors but be…

Windows 95 is so good because Microsoft put significant effort into making it that way. The design process was backed by usability studies featuring users of all skill levels. It was designed to be approachable by new users (new not only to Windows, but to computers in general), without hindering more advanced users. https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/238386.238611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12330899 I…

Yes, 95 was a remarkable achievement. Both Mac OS 9 and 95 were top of the UX back then. But after that, Apple made OS X, which introduced a new paradigm, look, etc. Windows just crashed with rare translucid UI implementation, then, on the flat design introduction they did Metro, another failure because the need to be on the same train

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#158
post #48

> Brutalism is a 1950’s architectural trend that was abandoning all decorations, and creating brutally simple buildings made from concrete. They often weren’t even painted to emphasize their brutal nature. So big, brutal blocks of concrete. The word "brut" came from French "Béton brut" which means "raw concrete" — has nothing with how "brutal" we perceive it to be. There's lots of architecture articles covering this…

in that case, why it is called 'brutalism' instead of 'brutism' ? I'm not implying you are wrong, but probably it's the reason of confusion: * brutal - brutalism * brut - brutism

The postfix -al in English means "of or pertaining to". It comes from Middle English, from either Latin or French, possibly from Etruscan before that. It's often added to nouns to make an adjective form. The postfix -ism (from Ancient Greek) is a suffix added to the end of a word to indicate that the word represents a specific practice, system, or philosophy, often political ideologies or artistic movements. It suggests the word is related to a belief accepted as an authority by a group or school of thought.

The word brutal comes from Medieval Latin brutalis ("savage, stupid"), from Latin brūtus ("dull, stupid"). The English use of the word has a particular connotation/definition that differs from both the French and original Latin.

The French word brut comes from Middle French, from Old French, from the Latin brūtus (“heavy, dull”). Today it means either "raw", "strong", or "gross" ("big, thick, large, stout", "whole, entire, overall, total, aggregate").

The word brutalism could translate as "a system, belief, or artistic movement, of or relating to, a whole/entire, dull/big/thick stupid/savage aggregate". Doesn't make for a great definition.

However, that's not the whole story.

The word brutalism was coined first by Swedish architect Hans Asplund in 1950 as nybrutalism. It described a home Villa Göth (built by Bengt Edman and Lennart Holm) made using red brick - not concrete. In 1955, British journalist Reyner Banham popularized an essay called “The New Brutalism,” in which he used the brick-and-steel Hunstanton School (by architects Peter and Alison Smithson) as an example of this new form. The point was to stretch Modernism even further, but concrete was not (yet) involved.

In 1966, in French architectural critic Reyner Banham's book "The New Brutalism: Ethic or Aesthetic?", he redefined the word by suggesting that brut was a French pun, combining the meanings of "béton brut" and "brutal". 16 years after the coining of nybrutalism, the term's use became linked to concrete.

So really, the word originated as a reference to the the raw edges of an extended Modernist design, and then was reinterpreted as a pun relating to raw concrete, and then the English who weren't aware of this pun simply assumed it related to the brutality of the buildings' aesthetics.

--

ps. brutism would (without a different explicit definition, use, or origin) be the same word as brutaism, just without the "of or pertaining to" postfix. English has thousands of words which have different spellings and the same meaning. You can replace the -al postfix with -ition or -ision and it means the same thing (disposition/disposal=dispose, proposition/proposal=propose, submission/submittal=submit, transmission/transmittal=transmit). But not in all cases, as some forms end up having a different origin (reversion/reversal=revert,reverse).

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#159

I think neobrutalism is the wrong name. I think it gives it a gravitas that is undeserved. This is better described as word95 or ms-bobism. The colours, the style is firmly rooted in the mid 90s graphic design style of liberated desktop publishing. Brutalism was all about function over form, using concrete to make a space that is functional, large light and bright.

Yeah, this seems to have more in common with Memphis design than brutalism.

https://cari.institute/aesthetics/memphis-milano

Re: Neubrutalism is taking over the web?

#160

> People simply get bored with how their apps and websites look after six to seven years. They need a change. Is there any research that supports this claim? If I use an app for 6 years, why would I suddenly need a change? I'm still ocassionally using a 10 y/o version of Photoshop. In fact, I'm very happy that it does not change. I wouldn't want to spend time on re-learning the UI. The same is true for many apps that…

I've worked in graphic design and marketing on and off for like 15 years.

Do designs TYPICALLY change every 5 ish years. Yes.

Is it because of a good reason, I claim no.

While designs in companies do evolve and can be significantly different, you should still be able to tell the origin. What normally happens the creative/marketing director moves on to a new company and is replaced. The new blood has a self imposed outlook that they need to change all the things significantly to prove their vision exists. You saw this with Avis and their incredibly successful, "we are the 2nd place car rental agency, so we work harder to get your business." Except a new marketing team then got brought on due to exec politics/shuffling. Obviously the new firm cant do what the old one did because they have to prove themselves... and they dropped the ball and things went to shit.

Company restructuring, politics and egos have more to do with design changes than the unicorn world of design trends.

This neobrute idea is just a lazier version of the 90s aesthetic. Like, a basic bitch reimagining with no personality. I bet designers who like this trend are vegan and like watching The Office on repeat because, "OMG, like, the office is my favorite show ev-vaaaaaa." My 2 cents.

Post reply on HN