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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#481

Post by coffeeblack »

vimy wrote: post #417
ctime wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a saying in Ireland called "More Irish than the Irish" and refers to immigrants and non-locals who take up all of the local culture to extreme (compared to the average) levels. Immigrants are statistically the most law abiding and often times, even conservative, members of a a community and it probably is one measure of long-term survival (esp. in the U.S. while living under the microscope of a work visa) so…

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

It can actually both be true at the same time. Because “immigrant” isn’t one homogeneous group.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#482

Post by raxxorraxor »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

That was still true 25 years later and for a few lucky ones it still is today. I think parents compensate the time they cannot spend with their children with exaggerating measures for their safety. Or for social signaling people are very concerned about safety in general because they have no other channel to show that they care.

I can understand it in a large cities though, traffic has indeed become more dangerous because the density increased massively. Not from the US, but the usual horror story you hear is that you cannot leave your kids running around or risk getting called CPS on you.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#483

Post by aconst »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

My 15 years old daughter was taking public transportation to go to her sport club 20 km away when she was in primary school. Needless to say she was the only child alone in the train. She has all latitude to go where she wants as long as she tells us if it's far. Some friends of her just can't get out of their home alone excepted to go to junior high school (maybe it is even their parents who bring them?), such a gap!

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#484

Post by pvaldes »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #363
kurthr wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what part of the 1900s... I grew up (also in the 70s&80s) as a "latchkey" in an area that was built in the 50s and 60s and had the same experience of walking and riding to school. This seems like a "reality TV" phenomena of the last 25 years. Certainly, there are suburban deserts that are completely unwalkable, but most housing is not like that (certainly not "affordable" housing) simply because…

Does the remark about immigrants make sense? The typical immigrant can't be more concerned about fitting in that the typical native. Because the typical native's behavior determines what "fitting in" means.

There are many cases of immigrants saving the life of small children in trouble. Men are brain-wired to protect and rescue any children in distress. The problem is that we slowly assumed that other people is dangerous or insane by default just by a few outliers and just to be sold things.

And that when you progressively restrict what people can do in a society, or everybody feels watched and judged 24/7, at some point you will start to encourage perverted conducts of escape.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#485

Post by malteof »

eterevsky wrote: post #449

In Switzerland kids are walking to the kindergarten and school by themselves, starting around the age of 5. The parents will take them there the first few time, but after that they have to go on their own.

Can confirm - our daughter started walking to Kindergarten about 9 months ago and she just turned 5 a few weeks ago. She’s very proud of her independence, you can see it does something good for the kids.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#486

Post by rglullis »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #438
rglullis wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking with the kids? Not a problem. But the thought of letting my kids (5 and 2.5) run errands by themselves (in a city like Berlin with its abundant number of homeless and mentally-ill people everywhere ) gave me goosebumps. "It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity.

> "It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity. This is extremist thinking and frankly quite useless without considering the actual level of risk involved.

Of course it is extremist thinking! We are talking about the survival of your own children, not some utility maximization function.

Imagine a game of Russian Roulette with one bullet in a gigantic chamber (N slots) where you get to win a small prize every time the gun doesn't fire. Is there any sense in asking if there is a N large enough to make you consider playing this game consistently for 2-3 years, when the gun is pointed at your kids?

Mind you, I am not defending helicopter parenting and I do believe that we should err on the side of autonomy vs safety. But I can think of other ways to exercise this autonomy (e.g, drop the kid at the door of a local supermarket and say "here is 10€, can you please go get X, Y and Z while I am outside looking for something else?") without worrying about is the worst possible thing that could happen.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#487

Post by BurningPenguin »

vimy wrote: post #417
ctime wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a saying in Ireland called "More Irish than the Irish" and refers to immigrants and non-locals who take up all of the local culture to extreme (compared to the average) levels. Immigrants are statistically the most law abiding and often times, even conservative, members of a a community and it probably is one measure of long-term survival (esp. in the U.S. while living under the microscope of a work visa) so…

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

> They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics

Judging from my own anecdotal experiences as someone who "doesn't look like a German", i'm willing to take a wild guess why: Because everything they do is under a microscope.

I got my bags searched, because i "walked suspiciously through the isles" in a store (woman thought i'm a foreigner) and i got a false accusation by a police officer who said he "knew people like me".

Also the German BKA crime statistic, as an example, shows reported crimes. It doesn't exactly show how many where actually convicted. So i guess i'm also somewhere in the stats from a few years ago.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#488

Post by smt88 »

brigandish wrote: post #469
smt88 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're paid while the justice is being worked out and their trial takes years, that is potentially a burden that the employer can't bear. Also, you're describing a situation where bad behavior becomes a protected class as soon as you get arrested for it. In my high school, a teacher was caught raping one of his teenage students. He was fired for it. In your opinion, if he had been arrested, he should have had his…

That's an argument for a speedier judicial process, not allowing a lack of employment protection to act like a non-judicial punitive action (that then also likely hinders the actual defence within the justice system). > I'm glad to live in the US where I can fire someone I know has committed a crime. It is possible to know things before the criminal justice system decides they are true. That's the opposite of what th…

> That's the opposite of what the constitution sets out to provide.

The Constitution does not include "accused criminals" as a protected class. Please point to the exact section of the Constitution that includes them.

I'm going to be charitable and assume you meant that presumption of innocence is in the Constitution, which it actually isn't[1]. As set forth elsewhere and respected in the US, presumption of innocence applies only to the legal system. You do not have a right to the presumption of innocence by your fellow citizens.

And as I asked in another comment: if I witness someone committing a crime and decide to fire them, should the government force me to wait until they are convicted of the crime?

What if the victim doesn't want to press charges? What if the criminal abuses to legal system or repeatedly appeals, resulting in a delay of multiple years before they are convicted?

This is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. No one should be forced to keep someone on payroll that they have good reason to suspect is dangerous or dishonest.

1. https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/criminal-defense/is-the-pr...

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#489

Post by spiderfarmer »

Beltalowda wrote: post #373
w0rkaround wrote: post #74

Absolutely need to plug Not Just Bikes, a youtube channel done by a Canadian living in The Netherlands about urban planning using Dutch infrastructure as the gold standard. Key points he makes are how bad North American environments are for child freedom. Its almost entirely due to NA urban planning prioritizing cars over everything else, making it just dangerous for anyone to try and walk anywhere, let alone childre…

> Dutch infrastructure as the gold standard I don't think it's really a "gold standard"; it's more that everything else is so unbelievably atrocious that it looks like a "gold standard", but it's still incredibly car-dominated. I watched the video and it's not wrong: it's extremely common for children to cycle to elementary school on their own and it's mostly safe, but it doesn't really "prioritize pedestrians, bikes…

I live near one of the cities shown in the video (Assen). Look it up on Google streetview. Most streets are dominated by bikes and pedestrians, not cars. Cars are mostly routed through streets are designed to accommodate them.

Accidents are rare, but we can always do better. All accidents are documented and safety statistics are freely available here: https://swov.nl/nl/verkeersveiligheidscijfers

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#490

Post by frutiger »

agilob wrote: post #476
tempnow987 wrote: post #67

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

When I was 5 my parents went on holiday abroad for 2 weeks and left me alone at home with 2 dogs. We had great fun after I learnt how to use analogue camera

What did you eat during those two weeks?
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