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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#351

Post by trgn »

gumby wrote: post #267
trgn wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. There are a ton of comments about people reminiscing about doing exactly that. The problem is the corner shop no longer exists. And if it does, it's a chain, and the rotating staff won't recognize the toddler as being yours. Or going there will get your kid run over by an SUV. Mainly the latter.

I checked with my kid and shops no longer let little kids by cigarettes or beer. How customer unfriendly!

It really is. Because it's man adapting to the measure and not the other way around. The 5 year old isn't going to drink that beer. It's gangly teenagers up to no good. The shopkeeper should totally give the wine bottle to the little kid running an errand for their parents, but not to the teenager looking to impress their friends.

My mom asked me to pick up prescriptions at the local pharmacy starting I was 6-7 (we lived a few blocks away). The pharmacists gave them to me because she knew me and my parents. Blanket laws are easy to enforce, but they remove precisely this individual agency.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#352

Post by askonomm »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

Definitely depends also where. I grew up in the 90's, in Estonia, and had the exact same childhood as you did. Now it's the 20's and from what I can see, not much has changed here. There are certainly more rules and regulations to stop speeding cars near schools and kindergartens, but I regularly see kindergarten children roaming around freely. I'm pretty sure this is a culture thing.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#353

Post by trgn »

jhugo wrote: post #247
trgn wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course. It's and/and. Should also teach that driver to slow down, and be prepared to come to an emergency stop at any given time. Or have streets that naturally slow down traffic by their design, if that's too hard for the driver. Your comment comes from a value system which I find sociopathic. I think it's much more important that the public realm is safe for all, which includes toddlers running errands alon…

Didn't sound like blame to me. The reality we live in has too many cars, too fast cars, too large cars. The kid lives in that reality now and probably won't get a chance to be a kid in a different reality. Therefore, it would be a good idea to help them to learn to safely explore their world, with some independence, in the reality that they actually live in.

I 100% agree with you on this

But no matter how well you teach that toddler to be careful, there are few places in the US where it would be safe from inattentive drives to send them out on an errand. That's the problem.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#354

Post by rtlfe »

dionidium wrote: post #200
beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

> Recently I drove by that school, and the bike racks were gone. This is the thing: the bike racks are gone because so are the kids walking/biking to school. If you let your kid do it, they'll be the only one. I walked to school in the 80s and there were lots of kids in my neighborhood walking to school at the same time. That's a very different experience. I also lived in a neighborhood that was laid out in the early…

> You can't combat this enormous societal change by making an individual effort to let your kids do more by themselves.

Maybe not, but you can do things like:

* Live downtown instead of in a suburb

* Ask your school / DOT to close the street in front of the school during dropoff and pickup hours

* Walk with your kid to school instead of driving them

* Support higher-density development in your area

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#355

Post by Foreignborn »

redact207 wrote: post #295
jmyeet wrote: post #124

Netflix has a Japanese show called Old Enough. It shows Japanese children doing their first errand. Example: walking a kilometer to the store (including crossing a busy street), buying 3 items and bringing them back. Age? 2 years, 9 months. It's wild. I grew up at a time and a place where I had a lot of independence. I rode a bike everywhere. I'd do things by myself and with friends. I actually feel sad for kids nowa…

If you watch it, you'll notice: - Most of the kids live in quiet country towns or rural areas - Most of the errands avoid crossing roads, or: - If they do, then the assistants are checking for and controlling traffic - It shows kids doing their first ever errand, it's not their everyday life

I live in Tokyo and just today on my way to coffee, saw several kindergarten-aged children crossing busy main roads to go to school. It does happen and happens nearly every day.

This show likely does help prevent accidents (and yes 2 year olds aren't running errands every day) but the main point still stands, kids are living more autonomously in some ways in their every day life.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#356

Post by jtbayly »

CalRobert wrote: post #331
jtbayly wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't combat this enormous societal change by making an individual effort to let your kids do more by themselves. Sure you can. Might not make much cultural difference, but it will make a big difference for your kids.

I do not feel safe letting my kids walk on roads in their current state.

I assume you mean they don't know enough yet? You can improve their state so that crossing the street is quite safe. What do they need to know to avoid being a pedestrian fatality? Here are the top three things.[0]

1. Don't walk under the influence. 2. Don't walk at night. 3. Only cross at an intersection.

[0]: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/GHSA/Ped-Spotli....

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#358

Post by caslon »

WalterBright wrote: post #349
caslon wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty stable, though, and the rise isn't actually that large (just about at 2008 levels, and far below 2004 levels): 2008-modernity: https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/23/72/75/21999466/3/rawImage.j... Graph that includes pre-2008 levels: https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*llD-nfzEV_nV-hISBQIRCQ.jpe...

Recent property crime rates are famously undercounted, as people have largely stopped reporting them because the police do not react. That's why my remark was on violent crime levels.

The first figure on both graphs is on violent crime. It's the orange one that's on property crime.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#359

Post by astura »

cma wrote: post #297
fnordpiglet wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

Aren't crime rates way way down since the 70s and 80s?

Yes.
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