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IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

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121–130 of 207 posts

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wait until more reports come in. Alternatively, just turn off iCloud back ups.

Will turning off iCloud back ups turn off the auto-cleaning behavior?

It won't matter if the files are saved in the "Documents" folder as that isn't cleaned.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#122
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing "No backup, never cleared" which is what the old "2. Cache" scenario used to be.

I disagree. If it's not worth backing up (locally), it doesn't deserve protected status on the phone. Or to put it another way, if it's important enough to retain when storage space is low, it's important enough to retain for when you have to recover from a backup.

I think that is a decision best left to the developer or user. Take an app that syncs your photos from a site you may already use, like Picasa, Flickr or SmugMug. You want to have these available on your iPad or iPhone instantly, even when you are without internet service. But you don't need them backed up to your computer every time you sync, causing the backup times to skyrocket, and if you lose them on a restore, it's a minor inconvenience, but not a huge deal. Losing them unexpectedly when you don't have the time or ability to re-downlaod them is a much more major problem for some people.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't think there is an issue with allowing Instapaper content to get backed up to iCloud here. The analogy of a user created archive is a good one. If people don't want the benefit of having their Instapaper content transfers across their devices automatically (and I do think this is a good feature) then they are free to disable iCloud backup for Instapaper in Settings.

That's not entirely true. You can disable iCloud syncing for individual Apple apps, but 3rd party apps are all-or-nothing. You can't disable iCloud syncing for a single 3rd party app.

You can't? What's this screenshot showing, then?

http://i.imgur.com/acOje.png

(That's a serious question, BTW. I would check it myself but I can't upgrade to iOS5 until I figure out how to get Windows DEP to stop killing iTunes 10.5 every time I launch it.)

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS 5 now lets you see per app space usage. (it's under Settings > General > Usage) I don't see anyway to delete that temp data, however, only the app itself (for non-apple apps).

That's only the data that will be backed up to iCloud though, so it probably doesn't include cache/tmp.

It does - my Downloads app is reported as using 10 GB.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#126
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the vast majority of developers of iOS apps the specifics of how their data is stored and backed up do not matter. If they were not forced by Apple to adopt this set of constraints they would make decisions on a whim, it would lead to less freedom for user, because where there is uniformity, there is a power to abstract, there is a freedom to not micromanage. Circumventing design decicions is hard. Learning the s…

So let's all wear the same clothes, eat the same foods, engage in the same pastimes, work the same hours, walk at the same speeds, drive the same car. Then the only abstraction will be in our dreams - the only place we will be free! Our dreams will then be the blessed relief that we will always look forward to as our own little free moment. Point is, such didactic statements are stupid, as is the whole 'less choice i…

> So let's all wear the same clothes, eat the same foods, engage in the same pastimes, work the same hours, walk at the same speeds, drive the same car.

Yes, clearly restrictions for the space available to apps on a mobile phone is the same as political totalitarianism.

And user space apps not being able to address/change kernel space in Unix is also a major blow to our freedom.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#127
post #35
post #14

Apple's in a tight spot here - either they leave things as they are and piss off developers (and, by fiat, piss off users), or they have to start forcing users to more proactively manage their remaining space. One can probably easily imagine an interface for showing the user how much data a particular app is using and allow them to nuke the temporary stuff. It might even look beautiful. It might even be fun to use. B…

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

  Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to
  the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary
  iOS.
How about this:

  Every non-developer user is required to bend to the will
  of the programmers who develop the OS.
Now tell me, how many of Android users a capable of modifying the OS, and how many of those are willing to.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#128
post #35
post #14

Apple's in a tight spot here - either they leave things as they are and piss off developers (and, by fiat, piss off users), or they have to start forcing users to more proactively manage their remaining space. One can probably easily imagine an interface for showing the user how much data a particular app is using and allow them to nuke the temporary stuff. It might even look beautiful. It might even be fun to use. B…

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

> This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users.

Developers are not users. I don't particularly want my mobile phone to respect the "freedom of its developers". I do want to be sure that no app I install at a whim hogs the disk down, installs spyware or f*ks the phone when I'm in need to make an important call. If I wanted "developer freedom" I'd choose OpenMoko. Strangely, millions of us did not.

> Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS.

He's only "required" so if he chooses to use iOS. And if he chooses to use iOS, it's because the platform attracted him, and one thing that attracts a lot of people to it it's the "it just works" and "you don't have to manage it".

> Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable.

Yeah. Except if you jailbreak.

> On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify and share the source code of the operating system and programs they are using, then that creates a dynamic where software cannot remain defective by design, something which cannot be said about Apple's hardware or software.

Yes. Then you get the mighty OpenMoko. Not defective by design. Yay!

> If we were talking about free (as in speech) software, users would have control of their data, and their choice of how to manage it; not some distant programmers working for a corporation's bottom line.

Yes, for a brief time in college I'd quote RMS too. You'll get over it.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#129
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's all make our own clothes, grow our own foods, invent our own pastimes, work random hours, ignore road signs, and build our own cars. There's a happy middle, and I think we're approaching it (given the mobile ecosystem, from both sides). I enjoy using iOS, and for most of my apps I don't care where they store it. I do agree that there appears to be a design flaw in iOS surrounding this, but allowing users com…

But we're already at the happy middle. I don't design my phone hardware, I don't design my operating system, I don't grow my own food... ... but I am free to do all of those, plus free to modify all of those in the way I choose, should I want a better fit. Sure, I may have to be a dev, and have background knowledge in how to engage in some of those, but the capability is there. Granny Jones isn't going to shoot herse…

Yes, abstract freedom is great.

Now, how about some real freedom. Like the freedom to choose the mobile OS you want, be it "restricted" iOS or "open" Android, or whatever.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#130
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will turning off iCloud back ups turn off the auto-cleaning behavior?

It won't matter if the files are saved in the "Documents" folder as that isn't cleaned.

Well yeah, but the point is developers will start moving it out of the Documents folder.
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