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Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

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Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#141

Post by clairity »

bko wrote: post #132
clairity wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most folks here are overthinking/armchairing the problem. coffee shop owners have their economics figured out or they wouldn't stay in business. cafes (like the dozens near me) are perfectly capable of sustaining their business with a blend of folks grabbing coffee to go and others sitting for hours. you don't need to institute limits, subscriptions, nudges, or any other customer-hostile action. just price well, and…

I think you're armchairing the problem by stating coffee shops exist therefore there is no problem. Many coffee shops do impose user hostile actions like loud music, small uncomfortable seating, etc. The others are big chains that have efficiencies (e.g. lower prices, more efficient workforce, better analytics) that are not available to smaller shops. In most competitive markets you cannot compete (i.e. not lose mone…

as an avid cafe-goer, i've looked into the economics of cafes and talk regularly with the coffee shop owners around me. competition is almost never a concern for most small/independent cafes. starbucks doesn't matter competitively because their prices aren't appreciably lower and they cater to a different segment than independent cafe owners.

the biggest problem is almost always reaching their target segment--like the people already sitting there with laptops--to drive enough transaction volume to be sustainable, which is squarely a marketing problem. rent and labor costs (operations) are usually the next biggest problems. competition ain't the issue.

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#142

Post by itslennysfault »

frostwarrior wrote: post #90

Is this prepared for worldwide locations? I'm in South America and the nearest location is a cafe in Amsterdam. Is this due to a small data set or does it set you in Europe/North America by default?

It shows me Amsterdam too, and I'm in the US. Seems like it just defaults to Amsterdam (doesn't use your location). Try searching for your city.

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#143

Post by gernb »

padolsey wrote: post #14

This is cool. Reminds me.. I have always liked the idea of opening a cafe (who hasn't !?) but I'd struggle with the modern behaviour of peeps sitting for hours taking up a plug + wifi in exchange for ~£$4. Hugely uneconomical for independents. Good-faith customers aware of the economic burden of their behaviour are a VERY rare breed.. So I quite like (/ethically hate) the idea of creating scarcities in order to influ…

SF Used to (still does?) have the Workshop Cafe that charged by the hour. It was usually packed! I think they shutdown during COVID and have not re-opened (yet?)

https://www.workshopcafe.com/

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#144

Post by comprev »

padolsey wrote: post #14

This is cool. Reminds me.. I have always liked the idea of opening a cafe (who hasn't !?) but I'd struggle with the modern behaviour of peeps sitting for hours taking up a plug + wifi in exchange for ~£$4. Hugely uneconomical for independents. Good-faith customers aware of the economic burden of their behaviour are a VERY rare breed.. So I quite like (/ethically hate) the idea of creating scarcities in order to influ…

Have a system by which each coffee comes with a unique code on the receipt. This code grants you 1hr on the WiFi before terminating your session.

Present a screen which provides a payment gateway to buy more time - or for less money - buy another drink.

I've been to cafes before which let you "rent" a security lock for laptops and all the tables had a loop which they could be attached too.

In many cafes I've seen signs saying "no tablets/laptops at the weekend" to make space for customers who want to socialise.

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#145

Post by powersnail »

padolsey wrote: post #14

This is cool. Reminds me.. I have always liked the idea of opening a cafe (who hasn't !?) but I'd struggle with the modern behaviour of peeps sitting for hours taking up a plug + wifi in exchange for ~£$4. Hugely uneconomical for independents. Good-faith customers aware of the economic burden of their behaviour are a VERY rare breed.. So I quite like (/ethically hate) the idea of creating scarcities in order to influ…

I've asked some cafe owners this question, and they just answered, nah, stay as long as you want; most customers never sit down anyway.

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#146

Post by bko »

clairity wrote: post #141
bko wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're armchairing the problem by stating coffee shops exist therefore there is no problem. Many coffee shops do impose user hostile actions like loud music, small uncomfortable seating, etc. The others are big chains that have efficiencies (e.g. lower prices, more efficient workforce, better analytics) that are not available to smaller shops. In most competitive markets you cannot compete (i.e. not lose mone…

as an avid cafe-goer, i've looked into the economics of cafes and talk regularly with the coffee shop owners around me. competition is almost never a concern for most small/independent cafes. starbucks doesn't matter competitively because their prices aren't appreciably lower and they cater to a different segment than independent cafe owners. the biggest problem is almost always reaching their target segment--like th…

"Marketing" usually means getting people to know about your product or service and getting them through the door.

If the owner has people sitting there and wants them to purchase more, that's more increasing average revenue per user which is limited. How much coffee can someone drink? If someone drinks a plain coffee, getting them to upgrade to a higher margin sugary drink is hard. You can push food and snacks, but that's also limited since you're not a restaurant and the person can only eat so many pastries or dry goods. For every one customer sitting down there are likely 10 customers that come in during that time. Why focus on the person sitting down?

Getting more people in the door is probably an easier way to get more revenue. Especially considering the amount of people that can sit around all day versus the amount of people that can walk by and pick up a cup of coffee to go. In that regard, competition is definitely a huge factor. If a coffee shop has a 15 minute wait while another one is 5 minutes, I would likely pick the faster one. You can prefer one brand to another, but service is a huge factor.

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#149

Post by bluedino »

markhalonen wrote: post #86

I've found libraries to be superior to cafes for working -- dead quiet. Funded by the taxpayer, so zero financial worries, just a public space. Free WiFi, Printer, etc. Nice chairs too

My library has fiber internet...but it only allows browsing. No ssh, no git, no vpn...

Re: Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely from

#150

Post by clairity »

bko wrote: post #146
clairity wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an avid cafe-goer, i've looked into the economics of cafes and talk regularly with the coffee shop owners around me. competition is almost never a concern for most small/independent cafes. starbucks doesn't matter competitively because their prices aren't appreciably lower and they cater to a different segment than independent cafe owners. the biggest problem is almost always reaching their target segment--like th…

"Marketing" usually means getting people to know about your product or service and getting them through the door. If the owner has people sitting there and wants them to purchase more, that's more increasing average revenue per user which is limited. How much coffee can someone drink? If someone drinks a plain coffee, getting them to upgrade to a higher margin sugary drink is hard. You can push food and snacks, but t…

yes, getting more people in the door was the point--a marketing problem, not a competitive one. what you don't want to do is give people a reason to eschew your shop with customer-hostility, which compounds rather than alleviates the marketing problem.
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