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On anti-crypto toxicity

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Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#591

Post by notch656a »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #266
sneak wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of their claims have materially panned out. Well, I can send arbitrarily large amounts of money across the planet, to any country with internet access, for tiny sums, safely, irreversibly, to anyone. Many people have sent many millions to Ukraine, for example. Transnational, permissionless internet money is quite handy. That wasn't possible before, and that's pretty useful, so I think the basic claim (that cry…

> Many people have sent many millions to Ukraine, for example Far more has been sent over traditional rails [1]. Once you consider state aid, e.g. the billions the Congress has authorized, crypto's contribution is irrelevant. Given Ukraine had to convert 80% of its crypto into hard currency before it could use it, crypto was also the most expensive donation vector. If we consider crypto’s likely role in softening Rus…

>Far more has been sent over traditional rails [1]. Once you consider state aid, e.g. the billions the Congress has authorized, crypto's contribution is irrelevant.

When you put it that way, your or my life is just a point of irrelevance in the sea of humanity. While that has a ring of truth to it, it's an odd way to dismiss each piece from making its contribution. A house is built of many bricks.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#592

Post by wait_a_minute »

peterth3 wrote: post #586

The other night I watched the Crypto Startup School video series by a16z on YouTube [0]. It includes presentations from smart people saying that blockchain/ethereum is the computing platform of the future. One issue with ETH/smart-contracts that is not addressed in the series is how to ship patches to a smart contract. Let’s say there’s a vulnerability in my contract that accidentally leaks ETH. How do I ship a patch…

There are upgradeable smart contracts.

https://docs.openzeppelin.com/upgrades-plugins/1.x/writing-u...

There is also the concept of a standard upgradeable proxy contract.

https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-1822#motivation

This is an area in which someone could build useful tools and libraries to facilitate this need even more.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#593

Post by loceng »

loceng wrote: post #381
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootstrapping a new cryptocurrency where 90% of the coins go to relatively few early adopters is the worst possible way to fix financial inequality. The crypto holders would love if the world switched to using the cryptocurrency they’re invested in because it would make them extraordinarily wealthy relative to the average person buying in late. I don’t understand how anyone can honestly suggest that a gradual changeo…

While trying to not regularly call the majority of cryptocurrencies (the term currency misappropriated) an MLM-Ponzi scheme, I've started to realize that an easier or perhaps better way to state the problem with them is to use one of the key values that is virtue signalled against them: it's claimed that Bitcoin et al are anti-inflation, when in fact the inflation is just built into it - and only benefit the early/ea…

And I figured I'll reply to my own comment since I can't edit it any longer:

Had 4 points upvoted and now down to 0 points, arguably Bitcoin et al enthusiasts/gamblers who instead of actually responding to my points can suppress my comment from the top of a thread by a quick click of a downvote - giving them a reward, dopamine hit at the same time; ideologues who are financially incentivized to suppress counter narrative and promote their propaganda, whereas I'm not financially motivated or incentivized to spend all the time I have to write out what I do.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#594

Post by tablespoon »

koonsolo wrote: post #571
tablespoon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem is that this democracy/central bank is not stable in every country. So crypto provides real "internet money", with all benefits and drawbacks. Except that, from a practical perspective, if you live in a country without a stable "democracy/central bank," using fiat from a stable country (e.g. dollars or euros) is a better solution than cryptocurrency in pretty much all cases. AFAIK, cryptocurrency isn't in p…

> using fiat from a stable country (e.g. dollars or euros) is a better solution than cryptocurrency So how do you get your money out of the country when you are not allowed to get your money out of the country? Strap dollar bills on your chest, or just use crypto?

> So how do you get your money out of the country when you are not allowed to get your money out of the country? Strap dollar bills on your chest, or just use crypto?

For that scenario, the better question is: how are you supposed to get cryptocurrency if you're not allowed to get your money out of the country?

But that's not the scenario I was addressing, what I was addressing the circumstances that lead to the very real practice called "dollarization":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_use_of_the_U.S._...

> The U.S. dollar is also the official currency in several countries and the de facto currency in many others, with Federal Reserve Notes (and, in a few cases, U.S. coins) used in circulation.

A list is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_substitution#US_dolla...

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#595

Post by adalu »

malthaus wrote: post #183

Unfortunately, given: "How can we create a more equitable financial system, where everyone has access to banking services? How can we reduce the power that a small few currently hold over the web? How can we improve data privacy and ensure that people have control over their personal information? How can we create reasonable privacy in the financial system? How can we make information more available to everyone? How…

> How can we create a more equitable financial system, where everyone has access to banking services?

In the EU - easy - get rid of PSD2 which requires banks to add OTP before actions, account number and password are not good enough anymore. Information and transaction providers now exist because of that but they require an application and a certificate that costs money.

If in the EU we get rid of those and go back to old "home banking computer interface" everyone can access their own account in an automated way.

Instead we now have to pay an external service which pays the state for certs each year to be able to automate our bank accounts.

This is essentially legal theft or a protection racket.

Image you have to pay a 3rd party for every sale you made. That is PSD2 in a nutshell.

Also easy - provide free bank accounts. Banks make enough money as is and are bailed out with citizens cash if they crash.

All crypto(currency) does is contribute to the pollution of the planet and provide no real value (progress). I'm not talking about all the scams that are going on in terms of value and I'm aware people got filthy rich by gaming the market, which isn't a market to be honest. It's a manipulative scheme, unregulated and I repeat myself, bad for the environment.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#596

Post by shagie »

ilammy wrote: post #493
______-_-______ wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Ukraine, yes, this is probably a temporary state of emergency. But on a global scale, there is always a disruption somewhere. Or as one google SRE put it (I couldn't find the exact quote) "on our scale, once-in-a-million events happen every day". And, for many people out there, crypto is still the fastest way to transfer money, and the situation is very much not temporary. It's just that they are not t…

Speaking of Ukraine, the banking sector is working fine there at the moment, for what it's worth. Not for moving wealth out of the country and out of the local currency, but otherwise works.

From the other day: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/04/1090952156/how-ukraine-kept-b...

> Russia's invasion has caused untold damage to lives, buildings, and roads. It also threatened to destroy Ukraine's banking system.

> But a month into the war, Ukrainians in most of the country can still put their money in savings accounts, pay their telephone bills, and withdraw cash easily.

> Today, we speak to the CEO of Ukraine's second-largest bank to learn how the country's banks are continuing essential business in the wake of devastation on the homefront.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#598

Post by MrMan »

trutannus wrote: post #229
II2II wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, what would the world look like without democratic governments? Look at history, and you will notice that it is rarely better. Those who seek wealth and power aren't created by governments, nor will they magically disappear if governments disappear (or if their power is neutered). At least democracies have some checks and balances, even if they are nowhere near as effective as we need them to be.

> On the other hand, what would the world look like without democratic governments Nobody here is advocating against democracy. People are just pointing out that blind trust in state institutions is equally as illogical as blind trust in the EVM. States have a track record of serving the powerful first, and sometimes exclusively. Trusting apparatus with a track record like this masks a sort of flawed optimism, just l…

crypto is inherently anti-social and antidemocratic, or at least all the ones I know about.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#599

Post by throwaway82652 »

______-_-______ wrote: post #278
bombcar wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretending a system that has specific names for various scams will somehow reduce inequality is hilarious. I feel people think “if everyone had bought Bitcoin when it was cheap, everyone would be rich now” and then think that Safemoon rugpull #42053 will somehow do it.

Quoted post unavailable.

>Are you saying if an industry has any bad parts, it can't have any good parts?

Cryptocurrency is not an industry and doesn't have any good parts. The technology itself is useless and universally bad for any practical purpose. It solves no problems, it only creates them. The "good things" done by companies using cryptocurrency are in spite of the technology, not because of it. Some companies don't even seem to bother with this though, and I'll call those out specifically.

I would also call out a virus-scanning company if we found out they were secretly developing and deploying the viruses on the side and then selling the solution to increase their own profits. The same thing is happening here with a lot of blockchain products except they aren't even trying to keep it a secret what they're doing.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#600

Post by MrMan »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #455
traceroute66 wrote: post #81

IMHO the problem with crypto is the very thing that its proponents cite as one of its key benefits, its decentralised nature. We are told that crypto is supposedly a way to "stick it to the man", to fight those "evil banks/governments". The trouble is that unlike fiat currency, there is no fundamental means of valuation. Crypto is worth what its worth on the day based largely or exclusively on entirely non-economic v…

> fundamental means of valuation. Can you expound on the fundamental means of valuation for Fiat currency? It's my understanding that there is no fiat currency with any fundamental backing. I was pretty sure Khadaffi was killed for promoting an African currency backed by gold, in lieu of the USD hegemony. > The value of fiat currency is ultimately tied to the economics of global, and therefore provides an objective m…

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/haidar/files/jih-currency_...

just one take, but there are many ways to approach a fundamental valuation of a currency.

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