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1x Programming

tim.mcnamara.nz

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Re: 1x Programming

#211

Post by Trasmatta »

ratww wrote: post #210
Trasmatta wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of story points is not to give extremely accurate measurements, but rather to inform you of the amount of work a team is able to do in a period of time (often a Sprint). This doesn't make sense. If the measurement isn't expected to be accurate, how can it accurately inform you of the amount of work your team can do in a period of time? That's why I said it gives you an illusion of insight. There are so ma…

> If the measurement isn't expected to be accurate how can it accurately inform you of the amount of work your team can do in a period of time? Please don't misquote me just to push a point, I said "extremely accurate" . They are an estimation . An estimation is NOT a deadline. It is not supposed to be extremely accurate. Here's what it says on the dictionary: "Estimation: A rough calculation of the value, number, qu…

> If they don't work for you, maybe you should ask what you're doing wrong and trying to fix the situation before throwing the baby away with the bathwater.

> You clearly have an axe to grind with story points, but this says more about you than about the technique itself.

This seems to be a very common occurrence whenever a criticism arises about agile or scrum -- "the issue isn't agile, it's how you're using it". At some point it's worth considering that there may be flaws in the techniques themselves, and its not always the fault of the people using those techniques.

You've taken the several very short paragraphs I posted and started flinging some pretty baseless accusations at me. I'm not sure why you're intent on turning this into something more personal, but I'm not really interested in continuing the conversation anymore because of that.

Re: 1x Programming

#212

Post by mmarq »

goldorak wrote: post #209
mmarq wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spend 40+ hours a week in front of a terminal. Italians work way more than Northern Europeans, but their salaries are significantly lower because of low productivity. This is true for any occupation, including software development.

I need to see those "Low productivity" numbers. I worked with ppl all around the work and I'd never seen that, what I see is companies offering lower salaries because the can in some countries, period. Anecdata: My previous team mate was Italian, a guy in his 50, former co-founder of an small Italian ISP super productive, bast amount of knowledge and working for 55k€ so.. please cut that "you get what you deserve".

Productivity doesn’t only depend on hard work, but also on many other factors, such as capital intensity and institutions.

One example that comes to mind is that in the UK I get a new laptop every other year and whatever software licence or training I may need. My brother in Italy was given a 5 year old laptop that would crash every other hour and his budget for software and training was 0. The result is that he used to work twice as hard as me, while being half productive.

EDIT: if you want data, compare the GDP for hour worked in Italy with Germany or the US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_...

Re: 1x Programming

#213

Post by cutler »

"Programming is a tool, little more". Sounds like someone who's been sitting in a cubicle hammering out Java/C# for too long. Try programming in Clojure or Ruby for a while and you might change your mind.

Re: 1x Programming

#214

Post by ratww »

Trasmatta wrote: post #211
ratww wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the measurement isn't expected to be accurate how can it accurately inform you of the amount of work your team can do in a period of time? Please don't misquote me just to push a point, I said "extremely accurate" . They are an estimation . An estimation is NOT a deadline. It is not supposed to be extremely accurate. Here's what it says on the dictionary: "Estimation: A rough calculation of the value, number, qu…

> If they don't work for you, maybe you should ask what you're doing wrong and trying to fix the situation before throwing the baby away with the bathwater. > You clearly have an axe to grind with story points, but this says more about you than about the technique itself. This seems to be a very common occurrence whenever a criticism arises about agile or scrum -- "the issue isn't agile, it's how you're using it". At…

Not only you misquoted me trying to prove a fallacious point, but you also took a small comment that I originally wrote and basically started accusing some of my co-workers of gaming story points. You were even downvoted for that.

Also from the comment about managers there are some clear issues in your process and work environment. I am honestly trying to point you into a better direction.

> “the issue isn't agile, it's how you're using it”

Agile and Scrum aren’t perfect, but the literature warns about the pitfalls you encountered, and shows how to avoid them. I am also telling you how.

If your goal is to make it work without those issues, you gotta do work. But it seems you only want to criticize it to make a point. In this case I refuse to be your sounding board.

Re: 1x Programming

#215

Post by hnfong »

__app_dev__ wrote: post #208
UncleMeat wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two ways to prep for interviews. One is to actually learn the principles. The other is to grind and memorize. 4-8 hours a day for months is the latter and is not the intended interview process, though some people go that route. “Review for a weekend” is, in my observation, what people at these companies are hoping that you’ll do.

One problem though (and I've interviewed at FAANG companies and similar process) is now they really expect you to memorize at lot because other developers are doing it as well. On one of my questions I was supposed to quickly recreate the quick-select algorithm from memory in 10 min. Stuff like this I learned a long time ago but have no need to memorize how to code it by hand quickly. Brushing up for the weekend is n…

> No doctor, lawyer, real estate agent (and many other much higher paying professions) would ever tolerate this type of interview

Hah. The grass is always greener on the other side I guess.

- The doctor has to pass exams to get their license to practice. And additional exams to be able to practice in a specialty. It often takes YEARS before a doctor passes the requisite exams to be able to practice in their chosen specialty.

- The lawyer situation is somewhat worse. It is significantly challenging to get a job after you get a law degree (which usually is rather expensive and at any rate an additional expense after your first degree), presuming you pass the bar exam. Let's say you did better than average, you'll probably end up becoming a lawyer in a small firm with The FAANG situation is simply a result of lack of gatekeeping in the software industry (you don't even need a CS degree) and general inclusiveness compared with the other professional industries. You don't need have a piece of paper proving you can code -- and that means sometimes candidates really literally can't code.

If the software industry operated like the medical profession, you'd have to pass a leetcode test before you are allowed to use a C++ compiler without supervision. And you'll have to take tests every 5 years to prove that you still know how to write quicksort.

If the software industry operated like the legal profession, FAANG companies would refuse to consider applications unless you had a perfect GPA from the top 20 CS programs or from another FAANG company. And then you'd have the privilege to work 60 hour weeks with them.

If the software industry operated like real estate, you'd get a low base salary and most of your money would be made on how many users your features contributed to revenue for your employer.

Nobody says you _need_ to work for FAANG. Most people don't. Given the competitive situation, obviously some people think the increased chance of getting an offer is worth the time invested in grinding leetcode problems. If you think the grass is really greener on the other side, try studying a law degree and getting a job in a New York city firm and then tell me it's really a better experience.

Disclaimer: I have a law degree (not in USA) and work for a FAANG. When I have choice over interview questions I don't ask leetcode style questions.

Re: 1x Programming

#216

Post by goldorak »

mmarq wrote: post #212
goldorak wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to see those "Low productivity" numbers. I worked with ppl all around the work and I'd never seen that, what I see is companies offering lower salaries because the can in some countries, period. Anecdata: My previous team mate was Italian, a guy in his 50, former co-founder of an small Italian ISP super productive, bast amount of knowledge and working for 55k€ so.. please cut that "you get what you deserve".

Productivity doesn’t only depend on hard work, but also on many other factors, such as capital intensity and institutions. One example that comes to mind is that in the UK I get a new laptop every other year and whatever software licence or training I may need. My brother in Italy was given a 5 year old laptop that would crash every other hour and his budget for software and training was 0. The result is that he used…

> EDIT: if you want data, compare the GDP for hour worked in Italy with Germany or the US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_... That's what they get paid, not what they produce

Re: 1x Programming

#217

Post by mmarq »

goldorak wrote: post #216
mmarq wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity doesn’t only depend on hard work, but also on many other factors, such as capital intensity and institutions. One example that comes to mind is that in the UK I get a new laptop every other year and whatever software licence or training I may need. My brother in Italy was given a 5 year old laptop that would crash every other hour and his budget for software and training was 0. The result is that he used…

> EDIT: if you want data, compare the GDP for hour worked in Italy with Germany or the US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_ ... That's what they get paid, not what they produce

No:

> Labor productivity is the gross domestic product generated per hour of working time.

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