Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are the schools no longer scams? All this does is help the schools, if new students think they might not actually have to pay that debt at the end.
Do you think the schools aren't punished for being scams, and they're just free to keep scamming students? And debt relief helps the debtor, not the original receiver of the funds. Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute#Legal_... > On August 25, 2016, the U.S. Department of Education banned ITT Tech from enrolling students who receive federal aid. The Department also doubled the surety funds t…
U.S. forgives 40k student loans
111–120 of 483 posts
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#112Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#113> At least 40,000 borrowers will receive immediate debt cancellation under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Program. How is this news?
It used to be that for PSLF you had to make 120 sequential "on-time" payments and if your loan provider claimed (correctly or incorrectly) that one of them was late then the clock would reset, making it next to impossible for anyone to claim the benefit. A 10-year clock that can be reset at any time by the bank isn't good. I believe they fixed it (possibly temporarily) so that the clock no longer resets. This is a pa…
The government already has a large department of the Treasury that handles this kind of thing.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#114I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…
The challenge isn't getting people to say "Yes" when you ask them "Hey do you want all of this great stuff?" That already happens, per the above popularity of individual benefits.
The challenge is getting people to say "Yes" when you ask them "Hey do you want to pay for the government to give you all of this great stuff?" Those two details: higher taxes and government administration, are what erode support for these policies.
The median US citizen believes that "government run" is a synonym for any of dozen negative adjectives: wasteful, won't work, abused by the rich, bureaucratic, untrustworthy, and so on. Are those true or false in any given instance? Would a private sector alternative would avoid those negatives? The specifics do not matter when people are acting on deeply-entrenched, life-long perceptions.
As for why that perception came to be? That would be a historical thesis of its own, and might be tangential to your question.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#115I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…
America is a welfare state. If you truly can't afford to go to college, the government will pay for you to go. Look up FAFSA.
If you can't afford medical care, the government will provide it for you. Look up Medicaid.
People pay into Social Security for Retirement, Social Security Disability if you get disabled, Medicare is universal healthcare for anyone 65 or older. Affordable Care Act subsidizes healthcare for anyone else that can't afford it.
I could go on and on and on. There is no black and white - we are just another shade of gray out there.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.
Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…
I was smart and sacrificed a little by going to community college so I wouldn’t have debt. I was also smart enough to get a degree in stem where jobs are actually available and in demand.
Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree? I did everything in my power to avoid student loans because I knew they where insane, I shouldn’t have to pay for others student loans because they didn’t think about any of this.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#117The latter requires cuts of administrative salaries across the board in the American higher education system. For example:
> "The university’s highest paid chancellor is UC San Francisco Chancellor Samuel Hawgood, whose salary increased from $795,675 to $819,545. At the bottom of the pay scale are the chancellors of UC Santa Cruz, UC Riverside and UC Merced, whose salaries increased from $394,655 to $406,495."
https://www.dailycal.org/2017/09/18/uc-gives-pay-raises-8-10...
In contrast, the governor of California makes $220K or so in salary. In 1980 UC tuition was $300 for the academic school year, plus a student services fee of $419. That sums to about $2500 a year inflation-adjusted today. Today's UC tuition is about $12,500 per year. On top of that, a minimal $20,000 per year for rent + food is tacked on. So if this is all paid by loans, ~120K debt is created for a four-year education - unless you have quite wealthy parents of course, then you get out free as a bird.
In reality what's going on here is the conversion of the American 20th century education system - which put America on the leading edge of technological development for over half a century - to the British Empire education system, in which a small aristocratic class attends exclusive colleges to get networked into the posh system of aristocratic class privilege. Everyone else just becomes a victim of the parasitic investment capitalist sector which collects interest on the debt for the next 20 years (oh yes that includes feeding into 401K boomer retirement plans, so there's that lovely angle too).
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#118Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.
That's where the 40,000 in the headline comes from. But the article also says this: > Several thousand borrowers with older loans will also receive forgiveness through income-driven repayment (IDR) forgiveness, plus another 3.6 million borrowers will receive at least three years of additional credit toward IDR forgiveness, the Education Department said in a statement.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
People in the US are always punished for being financially responsible.
People who have paid their student loan debt are in exactly the same situation they were after this forgiveness than they were before: that is, they have no student loan debt. People in the US are not punished for being financially responsible. They are rewarded for taking risks, but not punished for being responsible. Very different.
I don’t know you could possibly reach that conclusion.
I paid off my loan and lost 1000 hours of work.
You didn’t have to work 1000 hours to pay off your loan.
We’re not in exactly the same situation. I don’t know how else I can put this without ELI5’ing
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#120They should require banks to forgive loans, rather than forgiving Federally-backed loans. If you require banks to forgive loans (or if you allow loans to be dischargeable in bankruptcy), you create an incentive for the banks to loan money only for college education that results in useful careers. The Federal government is immune to market forces, so forgiving Federal loans just means you encourage the type of college…
Not convinced - a sensible bank will look at the likelihood of a person to get a good job after their education, and might conclude that while choosing Engineering over Art History is a factor, there are far stronger factors like - parents wealth and social position - wealth of parents of peer group at the university - skin colour, gender - propensity for drug alcohol abuse in the family - heart and other medical con…
All other debt can be discharged in bankruptcy, so the banks have free reign to be racist on mortgages and credit cards, but somehow student loans is the problem?
Also see who asked for student loans to be non-dischargeable hmmm.