As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it? • Hacker News Board

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#11

Post by veyron » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:01 AM UTC

cydonian_monk wrote: post #5

It's not the lack of cryo arrangements that's the problem. (I've considered cryo myself, but I'm not impressed with the likelyhood of success. Too many fracturing events, not to mention the likely extreme costs of recovery post-freezer. But if you're looking for more life, it's your only potential option.) The problem is that we haven't been focusing enough on the real issue: Death. Finding ways to extend human life…

Why is death a bad thing? Not in the "I want everyone to die" sense, but I personally find my mortality a motivating force (to get things done quickly and avoid procrastination :)

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#12

Post by michaelchisari » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:03 AM UTC

I'm very interested in life extension/repair/rejuvenation (ala Aubrey De Grey), but I really have no interest in cryogenics. This may be because I'm only 32 years old, and in good health, but from everything I've read, the former is much more realistic than the latter.

So I don't consider Ritchie's death without cryopreservation any more of a tragedy than the death itself.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#13

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:04 AM UTC

cydonian_monk wrote: post #5

It's not the lack of cryo arrangements that's the problem. (I've considered cryo myself, but I'm not impressed with the likelyhood of success. Too many fracturing events, not to mention the likely extreme costs of recovery post-freezer. But if you're looking for more life, it's your only potential option.) The problem is that we haven't been focusing enough on the real issue: Death. Finding ways to extend human life…

If we find (an affordable) way to extend human life indefinitely, then at some point individuals are going to be faced with the choice of voluntarily "stepping aside" (or whatever polite term we might come up with) or stop having children. I don't think either would be in most people's nature, which doesn't seem to lead to any pleasant consequences I can think of.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#14

Post by fl3tch » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:07 AM UTC

nknight wrote: post #6

Maybe when there's real evidence that cryonics is actually useful? Hackers of all people ought to know that no matter what your models say, it's all bullshit until you test it. And as far as I know, there's not even a model generally accepted by the scientific community that indicates any reasonable probability of success anyway.

Models are tested by experiments. Freeze a dog for a few years and resuscitate it, then we can talk seriously about the value of cryopreservation. Until then, you're throwing your money away in a desperate grasp at immortality. And that's money that could actually help real people now. At least that could be your legacy. Don't be the next Newton trying to turn crap into gold.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#15

Post by beloch » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:08 AM UTC

When you're healthy, living forever sounds great.

When you've experienced a few minor illnesses and a bit of short-lived pain, such as a broken limb or two, living forever still sounds great.

I had a (thankfully temporary) condition that resulted in chronic pain for about a year. It wasn't terrible pain, but pain that never goes away wears you down in a way that horrible, but short-lived, pain simply doesn't. After a while you just want it to stop. Before this period in my life I was of the opinion that immortality was worth almost anything. Now I believe that quality of life is just as important, if not more so. I would not want to live forever if it involved even a small amount of chronic pain. I used to think a little pain would be a small price to pay. That was ignorance.

Jobs and Ritchie both died from diseases that probably gave them a good deal of chronic pain over the last years of their lives. I can completely understand why extending their lives was not desirable to them.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#16

Post by abhaga » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:11 AM UTC

cydonian_monk wrote: post #5

It's not the lack of cryo arrangements that's the problem. (I've considered cryo myself, but I'm not impressed with the likelyhood of success. Too many fracturing events, not to mention the likely extreme costs of recovery post-freezer. But if you're looking for more life, it's your only potential option.) The problem is that we haven't been focusing enough on the real issue: Death. Finding ways to extend human life…

On the contrary, given the serious lack of natural resources facing us on mother earth, our space race should be - "the space race". We might have just enough time to figure out how to start living on Moon or may be Mars before we collapse into self destructive fighting for natural resources.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#17

Post by javert » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:14 AM UTC

abhaga wrote: post #16

cydonian_monk wrote: post #5

It's not the lack of cryo arrangements that's the problem. (I've considered cryo myself, but I'm not impressed with the likelyhood of success. Too many fracturing events, not to mention the likely extreme costs of recovery post-freezer. But if you're looking for more life, it's your only potential option.) The problem is that we haven't been focusing enough on the real issue: Death. Finding ways to extend human life…

On the contrary, given the serious lack of natural resources facing us on mother earth, our space race should be - "the space race". We might have just enough time to figure out how to start living on Moon or may be Mars before we collapse into self destructive fighting for natural resources.

Actually, the natural resources are mostly extremely abundant.

Plus, industrialized nations lose population (birth rate < death rate). So industrializing the whole world as quickly as possible is probably a good way to stabilize the total global population.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#18

Post by true_religion » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:17 AM UTC

beloch wrote: post #15

When you're healthy, living forever sounds great. When you've experienced a few minor illnesses and a bit of short-lived pain, such as a broken limb or two, living forever still sounds great. I had a (thankfully temporary) condition that resulted in chronic pain for about a year. It wasn't terrible pain, but pain that never goes away wears you down in a way that horrible, but short-lived, pain simply doesn't. After a…

> I can completely understand why extending their lives was not desirable to them.

I think its presumed that life extension would also come with improved health. What kills you is decline due to chronic conditions. Target that and stop the declined and you gain both long-life, and healthy life.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#19

Post by jpulgarin » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:18 AM UTC

veyron wrote: post #11

cydonian_monk wrote: post #5

It's not the lack of cryo arrangements that's the problem. (I've considered cryo myself, but I'm not impressed with the likelyhood of success. Too many fracturing events, not to mention the likely extreme costs of recovery post-freezer. But if you're looking for more life, it's your only potential option.) The problem is that we haven't been focusing enough on the real issue: Death. Finding ways to extend human life…

Why is death a bad thing? Not in the "I want everyone to die" sense, but I personally find my mortality a motivating force (to get things done quickly and avoid procrastination :)

Bad things can have good externalities. I, for one, value the productivity increasing side-effects of my mortality much less than the fact that it means I will die.

Re: As more hackers start to die, when do we finally do something about it?

#20

Post by mmaro » Fri, Oct 14, 2011, 4:18 AM UTC

Anyone remotely interested in cryonics should go read about it on LessWrong[1], instead of reading the same ol' ambivalent/pro-death comments. The only good reasons (that I can think of right now) not to sign up are if (1) you can't afford the ~$50/month or whatever your life insurance premiums + member dues would be, or (2) you rely on the financial support of people who are strongly anti-cryonics.

Keep in mind that after you suffer your serious accident/illness, you won't have the time/money/energy to sign up for cryonics, and you'll have more trouble convincing your next of kin to support you. And you probably won't be able to get any life insurance to pay for it, obviously.

[1] http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Cryonics