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Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

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341–350 of 813 posts

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#341

Asus TUF Dash Gaming 15 user here: I cannot recommend it enough. - Intel i7 H series processor (best mobile Intel chips) - Upgradeable RAM (currently at 24GB) - Intel Wifi 6 - Nvidia RTX 3060 - FullHD Screen with 144Hz - Comfortable keyboard with backlight - Two M.2 slots, laptop came with 500GB but added an extra 2TB. - Good connecticity: HDMI, Ethernet, 3 full-size USBA 3.1 ports, 1 Thunderbolt port. - Laptop runs…

That 1080p screen would be hard to get used to after working on crisp MBP screens. Especially when staring at text all day. The rest of the laptop does look great for the price.

It takes a day or 2 and you are used to the lower resolution again. It's not that the visible pixels would hinder readability. It's all psychological: Those who feel that nice looking fonts are important will be hard to convince. Probably also a status symbol for some. I prefer longer battery life and generally hate products and vendors wasting resources. I got HiDPI on my work laptop, but would switch back to a lower resolution any day. Use it regularly in other setups.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#342
MSI Creator Z16[P]

You should be able to disable the dGPU if you have no need for it, within the BIOS, to improve battery life.

As for why I recommend it?

1) It has a thin, MacBook-esque aluminium chassis.

2) A choice of two biometrics - Fingerprint and Facial (the latter works with Howdy on Linux).

3) The processor is a 11th (Z16) or 12th Gen. (Z16P) Intel Core i9. The former uses 3200MHz DDR4 AND the latter uses DDR5.

4) They both sport a RTX 30 Series dGPU for creative work or gaming.

5) MSI has decent Linux support historically, for their laptops at least.

6) MSI laptops feature a "hidden BIOS" which exposes hundreds of options and toggles (from undervolting and over locking, to tuning PCIe slot power limits). This is quite helpful at times.

7) It has a panel that pretty much ticks all the boxes except HDR: a good resolution of QHD, high colour accuracy (∆E 8) It sports RGB keyboard backlighting, if that's your thing.

9) It has a great selection of ports, with one (Z16P) or two (Z16) Thunderbolt 4 ports and two USB [Type-A] 10GBps ports.

10) MSI laptops of this size usually sport two NVMe slots, for expansion. You could even use one slot for a Google Coral. Furthermore, the included NVMes from MSI that I've had have been "top-tier" in terms of throughput.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#343

Lenovo has some pretty good sales on thinkpad X1s (at least they do in Canada - didn't check the US site). But, if you're in Canada, I just bought this: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16834233446?Description=gigabyte... It's got a gorgeous 4K OLED screen, a quite decent CPU and GPU, and it's currently $350 off + a $300 mail in rebate (there was an additional $350 off over the easter weekend, too). The track pad is not m…

I have a Lenovo X13 Gen 2 with a 16 thread Ryzen 5850U and 32GB of RAM. It’s about the most powerful you can get while still having a power efficient CPU under load. I spend all day compiling with all cores and battery is still around 8-9 hours with a 90% charging cap set in the bios to preserve battery longevity. Linux works great on the AMD chipset but I had to replace the Wi-Fi card with an Intel AX220. After buyi…

I also have the same X13 gen2. The shipped Realtek wifi chipset works for me, but I needed to have a newer kernel. Fedora 34 was good enough.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#344
post #287

Purism Librem 14 Is my daily driver currently running Linux mint. - overall very happy with it for my uses. I don’t do a lot of intense workloads on the laptop, mostly stuff like text editing and latex compiling. - battery is great. With screen brightness reasonably low and working on low intensity tasks, I could get 8 hours I think pretty easily. Probably 3 hours of video calls. - durability is good so far. My libre…

Do you have the 3-cell or the 4-cell battery?

> expect some challenges if you’re going to run a different distro.

There are some battery life/suspend issues that seem to be rooted in the disabled intel ME. I'll have to track it down, but I recall purism trying to get a kernel patch upstream from their PureOS. It surfaced on Arch, but I haven't seen it on Qubes, which is their other first-class OS.

> trackpad keyboard etc. are great especially once you get used to them.

N.B., they only offer US qwerty. The keys have quite a bit of travel, which is fine for me. The thing that really still gives me some grief is the mini shift key. If you're a right-pinky shifter, you're going to need to stretch. If you miss, you've hit up-arrow and now you're typing on the wrong line.

The speakers are perhaps the worst I've ever heard. Doesn't bother me because I never use them, but on that note, bluetooth is a little tricky out of the box since pureos doesn't ship a driver. Not sure if another distro just works.

Also, as mentioned elsewhere, it's really simple to take apart, upgrade, fix, etc. No torx, glue, or esoteric fasteners. I dumped 64gb ram in it for like $200 and it took about 3 minutes.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup - the tool that will randomly prevent you from opening any 3rd party app if Apple's signature checking service goes down. The tool that defaults to a case insensitive but confusingly case preserving fs. The tool that has been issued in variations that literally can't be used while closed, or if you plug the charging cable into the wrong "all the same" usb-c port. The tool that licenses away virtualization, making…

I write Go for a fintech company. I'll take a Macbook running MacOS over Linux or Windows every day of the week. It's simple and easy to set up and maintain my local dev environment. I don't understand why using Linux or hating a Mac is like a religious calling to some people. In my experience I jump few far fewer hoops managing my dev environment in MacOS than Linux for the work I do.

Hey man - you're the one pitching a macbook to the guy who explicitly stated he didn't want a macbook.

I'm just here disputing that a mac is "the best development tool".

My opinion is pretty simple - Apple makes decent hardware that they absolutely ruin with their software.

Honestly - the closer you can be to running the same platform/tooling that you're deploying to, the better off your life will be as a developer, and I bet you money you aren't deploying to a macOS box.

Linux and Windows are both entirely functional - frankly, windows 10 with WSL is a better experience than macOS, in my opinion - and they cost a lot less.

I have used quite a few languages professionally - Java, Golang, C++, C#, Ruby, Js (from the bad days predating jquery to the decent days of not needing jquery any more), Rust, Python, fuck - I've even professionally used Netlogo, which is not something I will ever recommend, and it still boggles my mind occasionally.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#347
post #284
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how cult-like mac users are.

Apple is a luxury fashion company and Apple hardware is a way for people to express social status, which means convincing as many other people as possible that Apple is desirable in order to elevate the effectiveness of their social status signaling. It's the same as any other luxury fashion brand, e.g. Louis Vuitton. The value is not in the function of the product itself, but in the perception of status that it enge…

I love and develop for Linux, but I use a Mac. I understand people’s complaints about macs, but in no way have I bought it for any kind of signaling. Most people don’t know I use a Mac, except my family.

I used to be a windows person, and had the same opinion about macs as you, but now I exclusively buy macs for myself and my family bc I am the family’s IT support team. And guess what? The amount of time and headaches it saved me over the years can’t be understated. It would not have been possible with Linux.

My mother can drag and drop an app into applications folder but even that is a stretch. She however can easily open the App Store and click buy, using the same UX as on her phone. Guess how many things are intuitive to her across her ipad, iPhone and Mac, that she almost never has to call me for anything.

I have my family on a family sharing plan with my card on it (I have terrible things to tell Apple about the fact that I have no granular control abt who or how much people can spend there) , but the fact that they are able to get what they need to be productive without having to research the many different ways an application is installed, or how it’s impossible to uninstall or to handle all those MSIs or whatever the windows installers do now, or virus scanning everything under the sun (and let me not forget about the mcaffee and avg and avast licenses and adware from companies that are supposed to be legitimate and give you peace of mind)…is priceless (I know, sounds like an Apple ad, but it’s true).

More, the integration with the outside world, how people can record voice, take notes, photos and have these things readily available everywhere. The finder app, and how I don’t need 100 different apps to view things I download from the web or get from an external source. Again, priceless.

You can geolocate, disable, brick your stolen hardware, no extra software, apps or cost. Super useful, I forgot my laptop in a cab once at an airport, my mother had hers stolen. Both are confirmed bricked. Maybe other brands/OSes have this now, but I have no time to find out.

Back to my family, how they can subscribe to things like scribd, audio books, udemy, and a bunch of other things without having to go through all the marketing pages and double speak of these services online and be able to cancel immediately if they need, gives them a lot of power and I’m glad they can get what they need when they need and move on with their lives. My mother is a lawyer, she should not spend her time fighting an OS.

Linux would be better than windows, but it has failure modes that require admin level terminal skills to solve. I use Linux server, but I have no need for the desktop atm.

Finally, maybe today is different or I never looked hard enough, but it used to be that to get a Linux laptop, I’d need to get a windows laptop and dual boot or wipe it and install Linux.

I may have time for this with servers (that’s my work), and I may have had time for this when I was in college, but I most certainly do not have time for this now.

Maybe if it were as easy to just walk into a store or get online and buy a Linux laptop back then, I might have gone Linux desktop rather than Mac.

In my mind, windows is hell, Linux is expert level, Mac is for everyone.

This is not an answer for this post, I would also like to get the answer and maybe I’ll try that.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#348
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dell XPSes are good too Be very careful. They are very good laptops, and Dell's customer support for businesses is stellar, but the XPS machines play VERY bad with Linux. There are some XPS machines that are shipped with linux, so they should be fine. But most of them have wifi/bluetooth chips that have no support at all, or very bad support.

Dell XPS has a Linux-specific line, called "Developer edition", which is intended to be Linux-compatible (it can be indeed be configured with Ubuntu on purchase). Their compatibility is not as good as they say (it needs a couple of tweaks, one of which is crucial, otherwise the machine eats batteries while on standby), but it's still decent. Definitely not "VERY bad".

I have an XPS 13 9310. What's this crucial tweak? I've been running it on a vanilla Arch install for about a year and haven't noticed much battery drain on standby (maybe a few % per day left sleeping?)

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it is not a tool that works for everyone. In my case, I consider the Mac one of the cons of working at my current place of work. My days are filled with minor hassles that I could really do without. Doing simple things takes longer, and I have to deal with random freezes, slowdowns and even crashes that I did not have to deal with when using my own laptop for similar needs over the past couple of years (mos…

Random freezes, slowdowns and crashes? Care to elaborate? What languages and tooling are you using that is giving that sort of grief? That is completely counter my experience.

I normally don't participate in these type of discussions on this one I will make an exception.

Macs are extremely bad in terms of thermal management in the long run. Yes sure, they will work absolutely fine in the store but they will slow down with your dev environment installed.

1. The Apple store is cooler and has better airflow than your cubicle/desk/room.

2. The vanilla operating system runs fast on any computer and os

3. intel CPUs are getting extremely hot when doing everyday ops on the computer (too early to talk about M class CPUs) 4. Random freezes are a real thing and there isn't much you can do about it.

5. Logic board changes are also a thing, I've witnessed temperature sensors breaking because of the bad thermals.

6. fan noise is awful. yes it won't run in the store or when the computer is new, but you will definitely notice once the issues begin

7. macbooks are not made to work with monitors - they support them. the primary usecase for a apple laptop is to work without a monitor. so be surprised if your monitor is not supported.

8. on pre m1 cpus any external monitor was also triggering the radeon gpus to fire up, causing thermal throttling to become active very quickly. kernel_task anyone?

This is a long one. recommended workarounds are:

- disabling turbo boost (why buy a "pro" computer in first place?)

- buying an egpu (external gpu) with an average price of $700

- use custom fan programs that ignore the SMC reported temparatures and dictate their own fan speed (can cause further thermal damage)

- using a specific 4k monitor (does not work)

Here are some interesting videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX6kZ3-UBuE

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=macbook+pro+int...

Try taking your intel macbook to the apple store and ask about this problem. they will really tell you that they have never heard about it. now try searching google and you will see thousands of people with the very same issues. apple will absolutely stonewall the issue and claim that you are the only person in the world experiencing this problem.

the list could go on for much longer but I'm too tired for that.

Do yourself a favor, if you are not planning to travel with the device, buy yourself a decent desktop computer with sufficient cooling for half the price.

Re: Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

#350
Never had too much problems running linux on Dell or Lenovo laptops. The fact that no matter where I am in the world I can find parts or support was a strong point to me to go the traditional route.

Now I make do with a Mac M1 and a companion samsung book pro, a machine that I choose because I wanted a very light (in physical weight) intel evo as a companion mobile machine running linux for when I feel that using linux is better than using Mac OS.

I run fedora on it, and other than the fingerprint sensor that doesn't work (at least out of the box, never cared enough to figure out if I could find a workaround).

I find it great that there are all those niche sellers out there, but I don't think going this route is cost-effective for most people.

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