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Neovim 0.7 Released

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Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are people seriously training their muscle memory to the default vim keybinding that is so cryptic I don't know what to say. Nobody does that on purpose. It's just a side-effect of learning Vim.

Why do you accept it as a given and not customize it?

Because I don't think the difference is worth my effort.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#212
post #54

I think Helix does a lot right on the "initial configuration" front. It comes with LSP and treesitter configured out of the box. Neovim on the other hand is heavily customizable, but you also have to do this for awesome functionality

For people interested in Helix, I've done a small video: https://youtu.be/9Zj-wiQ9_Xw

Thank you for the great video - I'm glad I watched it. Hadn't heard of Helix or Kakoune until now. While I have decades of muscle-memory in the vi key-bindings, it's easy to see that the select-object/verb method makes a lot of sense.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#213

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

I prefer using (neo)vim, but I find it a bit disingenuous to ask such a question. LSPs wouldn't exist without the investments made in VSCode. I'm grateful for this technology aimed at bringing IDE features in any editor (instead of being silo-ed), and don't really care if most people prefer the comfort of integrated environments.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#214
post #5

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

> I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I don't want to use my valuable time learning how to get vim working in some super-optimal way that's hypothetically going to improve my productivity by 1%. JetBrains consistently works well enough for me that I'm not going to bother switching. 90% of my life is spent thinking about how to solve the problem so the editor is not…

Easy. You can have vim bindings in both, while still retaining modern tooling integrated within.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#215
post #184

I really wanted to love nvim, because I think that some philosophies it tries to follow better match my way of thinking. However, I tried several times to configure it to match 1:1 my vim config and to stick to it, but there are several edge cases that vim solves better. Additionally, nvim with my workflow crashes sometimes, while vim doesn't.

As someone who just started using nvim, and assumed that vim was identical (or close enough to it that it can just be considered identical), what are these edge cases/differences?

There are issues in how the terminal is handled and the numbering of the buffers. Moving between the buffers (e.g. C-w, C-t) is not configured by default on nvim.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim/Neovim/Emacs/etc. require a certain "commitment" to them - you have to learn keybindings, for example. Moreover, if you want any fancy IDE features you're addicted to, like hints, autocomplete, static analysis, refactoring, etc. you have to configure it yourself, which still isn't quite straightforward as selecting a plugin in VSCode (perhaps this is a good feature idea?). Most people just don't think it's worth…

> you have to learn keybindings, Are people seriously training their muscle memory to the default vim keybinding that is so cryptic I don't know what to say. Since the early days of learning vim, I've changed the "go to end of line" bound as "-" which is next to "0" for "go to start of line" which is way more logically placed than some "^" that even needs shift pressed. If anyone thinks "because default works on any…

For me, "because default works on any machine" is a valid argument for some things and for others it is not. jk = Esc is so crucial, I can not live without it. Start of the line on the other hand is just `0w`, so not that clunky. I guess it depends on how much time you are spending on what amount of different machines :) These "muscle memory produces some weird result" vs. "this keybinding is not very convenient" also affect my thought process in different ways. The first one disturbs me much more for some reason.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#217

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

I've used Vim for 20 years. My main issue is that, while I love the text editing part, setting up something aesthetically pleasing with IDE-like features takes a lot of effort -- especially when you're dealing with multiple layers of shell + iTerm2. Some even add tmux on top of that! My setup still doesn't look on par with the amazing setups I see on Youtube. There are too many low-level settings you need to mess around with and it's completely unintuitive.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#218

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

I've used Vim for 20 years. My main issue is that, while I love the text editing part, setting up something aesthetically pleasing with IDE-like features takes a lot of effort -- especially when you're dealing with multiple layers of shell + iTerm2. Some even add tmux on top of that! My setup still doesn't look on par with the amazing setups I see on Youtube. There are too many low-level settings you need to mess aro…

Felt inspired to look at this again and there is a project called LunarVim which advertises giving you an "IDE" experience out of the box. Looks promising!

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#219
post #5

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

> I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I don't want to use my valuable time learning how to get vim working in some super-optimal way that's hypothetically going to improve my productivity by 1%. JetBrains consistently works well enough for me that I'm not going to bother switching. 90% of my life is spent thinking about how to solve the problem so the editor is not…

I think you can be productive in an IDE. But when it comes to vim (have been a vim-only user since 2013-2014) there is not a comparison really.

Every time i do pair programming, i always get the "wow how did you do that?!?" response. It's just SO much ahead of an IDE in so many ways. Modal editing (imho) is far superior to "just insert mode" style of text editing.

With neovim (and vim + coc before that) i get 95% of what an IDE could give me, and the last 5% (like some obscure refactoring stuff) is something is would probably never use.

TLDR. I think learning vim is like learning SQL. It's a cross language tool, that will massively benefit your entire career.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#220
post #5

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

> I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I don't want to use my valuable time learning how to get vim working in some super-optimal way that's hypothetically going to improve my productivity by 1%. JetBrains consistently works well enough for me that I'm not going to bother switching. 90% of my life is spent thinking about how to solve the problem so the editor is not…

You don't need to be super-optimal to use Vim. I've used it for decades and I don't care about being optimal or what to "save effort" in terms of efficiency. I use it because I like it. :)
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