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Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

emacs.amodernist.com

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Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#81

Post by bachmeier »

wtetzner wrote: post #60
bachmeier wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting, but you know what might even be better? If it could be done directly from emacs. First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Second, there should be a menu item to choose among particular setups. A new user shouldn't have to go through the less-than-fun process of installing a bunch of stuff to get a common sense setup.

> First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Except that would break a ton of existing commands, since ctrl-c is use as a prefix for a bunch of stuff already. You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It shouldn't be a problem on personal machines, since you can override the defaults. But if you ssh into a server and need to use emacs, it wo…

> You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it.

It would be a burden for a longtime user to have to enter one keyboard shortcut to move into legacy mode? As opposed to making it weird and difficult for everyone else and then watching Emacs die.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#82

Post by bachmeier »

nocman wrote: post #75
bachmeier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware. But it's not the default.

Nor should it be, in my opinion. Emacs has a loyal user base, and changing to having cua-mode as the default would likely anger most, if not all of them. I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.

> I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.

This sums up well the gigantic hurdles Emacs faces as it attempts to stay relevant over the next 20 years. We're talking about a single keyboard shortcut to switch back to legacy mode.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#83

Post by gnufx »

daptaq wrote: post #59
cbsmith wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that Customize's intended audience as well?

I wouldn't say so, customize is a useful interface to get an overview of all the options a package or feature might provide, but without any order or structure beyond the group hierarchy.

I don't know what's the basis for denying it, but the parent is correct about the intention when it was developed. I don't understand why it should be thought to imply Lisp knowledge. It is useful to lay out the customization possibilities, but that's a bonus.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#84

Post by macintux »

wtetzner wrote: post #60
bachmeier wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting, but you know what might even be better? If it could be done directly from emacs. First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Second, there should be a menu item to choose among particular setups. A new user shouldn't have to go through the less-than-fun process of installing a bunch of stuff to get a common sense setup.

> First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Except that would break a ton of existing commands, since ctrl-c is use as a prefix for a bunch of stuff already. You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It shouldn't be a problem on personal machines, since you can override the defaults. But if you ssh into a server and need to use emacs, it wo…

> Also, on macOS, cmd+c and cmd+v work be default.

Whoa. Long-time user and I had no idea.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#87

Post by ricktdotorg »

wow, i wish this tool had been around in the 90s!

i was lucky enough to have had a shell account on the GNU gnu.ai.mit.edu servers back in the 90s and found elisp inspiration from poking around in the $HOMEs of GNU hackers/legends like roland mcgrath and noah friedman and of course rms. i nearly wrote a book back about emacs then with a uni lecturer but he resigned/was fired in some kind of scandal and well, that was that.

amazingly i still have that shell account, though its of course moved a few times and has been for a while a gnu.org box.

i learned a lot about bash and how to structure things properly from ~roland's init scripts.

hah! just ssh'd in to fencepost.gnu.org and all his init scripts are still there[1]!

[1] https://i.imgur.com/a5gp5kl.png

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#88

Post by phist_mcgee »

bachmeier wrote: post #81
wtetzner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Except that would break a ton of existing commands, since ctrl-c is use as a prefix for a bunch of stuff already. You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It shouldn't be a problem on personal machines, since you can override the defaults. But if you ssh into a server and need to use emacs, it wo…

> You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It would be a burden for a longtime user to have to enter one keyboard shortcut to move into legacy mode? As opposed to making it weird and difficult for everyone else and then watching Emacs die.

Sadly emacs as a community is moving too glacially towards user friendliness for the sake of maintaining backwards compatibility. I don't see this trend changing any time soon, so fewer people every year will stick with it.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#89

Post by natrys »

bachmeier wrote: post #82
nocman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor should it be, in my opinion. Emacs has a loyal user base, and changing to having cua-mode as the default would likely anger most, if not all of them. I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.

> I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant. This sums up well the gigantic hurdles Emacs faces as it attempts to stay relevant over the next 20 years. We're talking about a single keyboard shortcut to switch back to legacy mode.

Emacs is more widely used today than ever before. There are more high quality packages being produced by the community today than I ever remember it being the case.

It's only when you stop looking at growing absolute user numbers and instead get into percentage, is when you reach a conclusion like Emacs is struggling to stay relevant. That's like saying Lamborghini is struggling to stay relevant because of Toyota or something.

Re: Show HN: Emacs Configuration Generator

#90

Post by nocman »

bachmeier wrote: post #82
nocman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor should it be, in my opinion. Emacs has a loyal user base, and changing to having cua-mode as the default would likely anger most, if not all of them. I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.

> I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant. This sums up well the gigantic hurdles Emacs faces as it attempts to stay relevant over the next 20 years. We're talking about a single keyboard shortcut to switch back to legacy mode.

And a single setting for someone to change now if they want cua-mode.

My point was that making the default cua-mode won't lead to a significant number of new long-term users, so it isn't worth the hassle it would create for people who are already using it.

Also, emacs is not struggling to stay relevant. I fully expect that it will appeal to an audience of users similar to the one it appeals to today for decades to come.

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