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M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

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Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#311

Post by Aaargh20318 »

cestith wrote: post #306
Dylan16807 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have to hold a candle to the M1 Mac mini to qualify as a low end desktop.

Of course not, because the M1 Mac Mini is not a low end desktop. That's the whole point multiple people have missed here, and I'm glad you're not one of them.

> the M1 Mac Mini is not a low end desktop

It's literally Apple's entry-level desktop machine.

The fact that there are even lower-end options doesn't mean that that it isn't a low-end machine. It is a very large spectrum, from a Raspberry Pi on one end to dual-cpu 2x64-core Threadrippers with gigabytes of RAM on the other. The Mac Mini is certainly on the lower end of this spectrum.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#312

Post by jq-r »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #296
jq-r wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two external monitors on my M1 Air. The "main" one is connected via hdmi and runs at 120Hz, and another one is connected via DisplayLink compatible adapter which is connected via usb to the same usb hub as the first monitor. That hub is then connected with two usb type-c connectors+cables to the laptop. It works quite fine. There is a small caveat though. The monitor connected with DisplayLink has a very small…

What adaptors/dongles are you using? I could really use a solution that keeps at least one monitor 120hz

The hub is a Ugreen branded one with two USB type C connectors which you can plug directly to your laptop. It also has 2 HDMI, 1 USB type A connectors, USB type C power input, and SD+micro SD card reader. I don't advise plugging this hub directly to your laptop because it heats up and that heats up the laptop's battery which I'm sure doesn't like it. I just keep it on two short USB type C cables so the heat doesn't transfer to the laptop. I've been using it for two years like this.

The DisplayLink compatible adapter is then connected to that hub via USB type A cable. It is made by Startech and has two DisplayPort connectors as outputs. I only use one out of those.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#313

Post by jsjohnst »

goosedragons wrote: post #292
jsjohnst wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it do 2x 5K60? The only true 5K monitors I know of are the LG 5k and the Apple Studio Display which are both TB or USB-C monitors, not DP. 5K60 takes ~25gb/sec, multiply times two and the single TB cable as input can’t handle 50gb/sec.

Display stream compression. You can only do it with the ASD as the LG doesn't support DSC.

Ah! Didn’t realize the ASD supported DSC. Ty!

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#314

Post by jsjohnst »

bombcar wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why? I assume you were aware of this limitation, as Apple was pretty clear in the specs about it, that it only supports one external monitor. If you pull the trigger on a purchase without reading the specs, then it's pretty much on you, no?

It didn’t become widely known until after the M1s had shipped - I was caught unexpected after someone at work couldn’t connect two to theirs.

> Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and: One external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20201110215047/https://www.apple...

Literally stated on the tech specs day of launch. Yes, Apple historically under promises[0] and over delivers, but in this case they stated exactly what it supported.

[0] Apple has never claimed support for more than 3x monitors to my knowledge on a laptop, but using an Intel MBP I was able to drive nine, all GPU backed without using Displaylink.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#315

Post by chrisfinazzo »

jq-r wrote: post #211
bombcar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one person at work is using something like that to drive two displays from the M1, so I suspect it can be made to work well enough.

I have two external monitors on my M1 Air. The "main" one is connected via hdmi and runs at 120Hz, and another one is connected via DisplayLink compatible adapter which is connected via usb to the same usb hub as the first monitor. That hub is then connected with two usb type-c connectors+cables to the laptop. It works quite fine. There is a small caveat though. The monitor connected with DisplayLink has a very small…

You mentioned input lag - how noticeable is this effect and is it something you can "hide" by increasing the tracking speed or other settings?

While it might be down to the mediocre Logitech gear he's using, one complaint I have gotten on occasion is how the cursor does not always keep up with his mouse inputs.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#316

Post by mccorrinall »

tjoff wrote: post #22
jon_adler wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A byte has been synonymous with an octet for as long as I can remember. I found a Wikipedia article [1] that describes the transition of a byte meaning the number of bits to encode character of text to an octet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_information

It does depend on context though. Transports often use 8b/10b, which is why SATA 6Gb/s is also 600 MB/s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding A byte is also referred to the smallest addressable unit. Which in most cases is 8 bits but many (I guess mostly niche architectures) have much larger characters/bytes, and is still very much relevant.

I love your comments! Always learning something new. (this time about SATA)

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#317

Post by cestith »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #311
cestith wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, because the M1 Mac Mini is not a low end desktop. That's the whole point multiple people have missed here, and I'm glad you're not one of them.

> the M1 Mac Mini is not a low end desktop It's literally Apple's entry-level desktop machine. The fact that there are even lower-end options doesn't mean that that it isn't a low-end machine. It is a very large spectrum, from a Raspberry Pi on one end to dual-cpu 2x64-core Threadrippers with gigabytes of RAM on the other. The Mac Mini is certainly on the lower end of this spectrum.

Let's pretend we're Slashdot for a second and use a car analogy. The least expensive part of Alfa Romeo's line or Ferrari's line is not a low-end car. Even Porsche with the Cayenne, much lower-tier than the rest of their stable, is not selling a low-end vehicle.

There's a very large spectrum, yes. Apple's least expensive system is maybe near the bottom of middle tier with no options but can be ordered in a configuration pushing $2000. Their most expensive machines are near the top of the middle tier or the bottom of the top tier. I think you meant to mention terabytes of RAM for the high end rather than gigabytes. I think of things like the Talos II as top-end workstations - something that starts around $9k and can easily be configured to close in on $40k for a single desktop workstation.

None of this suggests that because Apple doesn't sell a less expensive machine that they cater a product to the low end. They actually, truth be told, sell a less expensive machine that the Mini, because the Air includes a screen, keyboard, pointing device, and battery in its price. If you compare an M1 Air to the low end of laptops and other mid-tier laptops, you'll see it's closer to mid-tier than low-end in pretty much every way.

https://secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2WK2/purchase.html

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#318

Post by jq-r »

chrisfinazzo wrote: post #315
jq-r wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two external monitors on my M1 Air. The "main" one is connected via hdmi and runs at 120Hz, and another one is connected via DisplayLink compatible adapter which is connected via usb to the same usb hub as the first monitor. That hub is then connected with two usb type-c connectors+cables to the laptop. It works quite fine. There is a small caveat though. The monitor connected with DisplayLink has a very small…

You mentioned input lag - how noticeable is this effect and is it something you can "hide" by increasing the tracking speed or other settings? While it might be down to the mediocre Logitech gear he's using, one complaint I have gotten on occasion is how the cursor does not always keep up with his mouse inputs.

The effect to me is noticeable. If I gave it to my SO or some average user I dont' think it would be noticeable. But at the same time, we're all here, so we're not average users. However, on that monitor I have terminal or documentation so for me it works quite fine. Increasing the tracking speed or mouse refresh rates won't help in this case.

I will say though that the system is rock solid for me. I've read complaints about monitors not waking up or similar, but I've never experienced anything like it.

Also the mouse does keep up. The 60Hz refresh rate will keep up with it. There is just a small amount of lag, but that's that. Better than not having additional monitor in my case.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#319

Post by yencabulator »

gumby wrote: post #265
yencabulator wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirPods, Pro, Gen 1, 2 or 3? iPad, Air, Mini, or Pro, which generation? And for used ones, where does it say on those products which model it is? Apple also sucks at naming and labeling things.

TBH those names are the good ones. Which Macbook Air do you have? Today, sure, you can say "M1". But earlier models did not have official names requiring Apple themselves to describe them in documentation as something like "MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 ports)"* or worse, resort to the internal part number ("MPXQ2xx/A, MPXR2xx/A, MPXT2xx/A, MPXU2xx/A" in that case). Not that "Sony WF1000XM4s" is anyth…

Yes, I'll admit I didn't use Apple laptop naming as an example because I simply can't remember how it works.

Related, I have two old Mac Minis here and I can't tell which one is the several years newer one without finding a tiny model number printed on the bottom of both, looking them up, and comparing the specs.

I for one have no idea what ipads are better than what other ipads. Is Air better or worse than regular? How does that relate to Mini, in Apple laptops Air was the smaller laptops, but now there's also Mini?

At least companies leaning heavily into number-based schemes tend to make models with larger numbers the fancier more expensive ones. Acme Frobnicator 6400 is generally a lot better than Acme Frobnicator 3000.

Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2

#320

Post by amelius »

floatboth wrote: post #290
paulmd wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially yes, realistically no. This is the old "if the storage controller is lying about flushing to disk, there's not a lot you can do about it" problem. ZFS does have defensive mechanisms, like doing a read after write to try and be sure that what is written is actually committed to disk, but if the storage controller chooses to serve that out of cache then that could be a lie too. It's the old "trusting trust"…

More importantly ZFS by design ensures that if you unplug early and lose the last few writes, you'll end up in an earlier consistent state.

I think the one you are replying to understands this, but the point is that "the last few writes" may be executed in different order by the underlying hardware and this might confuse the filesystem.
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