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Debian and firmware

blog.einval.com

121–130 of 180 posts

Re: Debian and firmware

#121
Non free firmware is a huge ongoing problem for me. I am posting this from a laptop that has some major failings because of the lack of updated firmware.

Slightly apart from the main issue here I would suggest that there is an opportunity for communication with some of the parties that matter most. Producing media that shows how much happier customers are with products that have freely available firmware with updates might convince some manufacturers to change their ways. If it were clear that power users would direct purchasing for whole organizations based in part on availability of firmware then there would be a clear profit motive for doing that. At this time makers see providing firmware as an expense and a risk that only diminishes their position.

Re: Debian and firmware

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is mesa? It is the OpenGL and Vulkan libraries. Code calls the Vulkan API, and mesa translates that into something the video driver can handle, which in turn passes the command to the video card. > Why do people tell me not to install the video drivers from the Radeon website. Because AMD have spent a lot of time and effort getting the drivers in the kernel, and the website drivers are old and no longer the be…

This is great context, this only threw me because when I installed Debian and some other distros, I didn't have any graphics card drivers and was confused why and how to get them. > Because AMD have spent a lot of time and effort getting the drivers in the kernel Does that mean the drivers are open source? > It is a lot more simple. It is all built in. When it works. When you have no context (like me) and you are pre…

> Does that mean the drivers are open source?

Yes, they are. Of the big three (Intel, AMD, Nvidia), only the Nvidia drivers aren't open source (there's an open source driver for Nvidia, called "nouveau", but it doesn't come from the manufacturer and isn't that good).

Re: Debian and firmware

#123
post #36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it were possible to find and make and maintain "CD with a bit of the blobset glued in" I'd be happier frankly. As mentioned in my original comment, those images already exist, and are linked to on the Debian installation page.

Skim reading earns dismerit points! Thanks for pointing this out, I'll try harder to use them next install I do.

You probably want to keep this link at hand as the Debian main page hides everything but the standard stock image.

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/image...

Re: Debian and firmware

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the very common issue with network card firmware (wired&wireless) I have taken to always providing initial network access during install through me hooking up my phone via USB-tethering. No Firmware needed. Then select "expert mode", enable "non-free" repo, maybe "backports", go through base install only, reboot, re-enable USB-tethering a last time on the phone, install needed network card firmware, reboot…

This is such a solvable issue it deeply disturbs me you need to dance this dance. Whilst you might not be complaining about it, this is exactly the kind of stuff that deters people from using more FOSS. Not only are selecting non-default options every time you install a debian system, you've also spent the time to learn this ritual and you've had to comprehend the complexities of what, how and why to do this. Just to…

This kind of attitude is what makes FOSS good compared to (for example) ChromeOS though. It's hard to see when you've got one singular problem in front of you but once you abandon your principles and change all these things you're left with what is essentially Windows lite. It might be popular but it's hardly an improvement.

Re: Debian and firmware

#126
post #62

It is annoying for sure, that for something like AMD GPU you have to go out of the way to get a "non official" Debian installer that includes amdgpu firmware, otherwise installer won't be able to work. For the most part this annoyance affects the installation step. After your system is in some semi-working state where you at least can install packages or have access to network, you can add any firmware you want alrea…

Pretty sure this is what I did on my second attempt and still had the same issues. Could be wrong though. HP Envy 14-eb0 laptop.

Re: Debian and firmware

#127
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian is one of the top Linux distributions, so there are empirically a large number of people not being deterred. And many of the other top Linux distributions are Debian derivatives which both participate in the community and provide the alternate experience. Upholding its principles is the way Debian distinguishes itself. If you don't like it, use Mint or something.

Debian is a great project I know. But the comment that they only use debian for its principals directly suggests they would use something else if principals were not considered. Suggesting the other distros are better for their uses. Anecdotally I don't think I have ever seen a debian desktop user, and I wouldn't pick it for desktop either because they don't make it easy to get everything working like other distros d…

Debian desktop user off and on (mostly on) for 25 years checking in. I use it exactly because it is easy to get everything working.

Re: Debian and firmware

#128
post #14

As a long time Debian user I'm reluctant to criticize developer ergonomics as I'm not an _active_ contributor. That being said, _as a user_, I've not had any issue locating and using non-free firmware when required, and I would be disappointed to see the project change course by including non-free components in an offical manner. Removing the slight inconvenience (literally clicking a link _on the installation page_…

> My loyalty to Debian would be significantly impacted by such a change.

It's so funny that this doesn't affect you at all but merely making the platform more accessible "significantly impacts" your loyalty.

Doesn't that mean your loyalty was conditional anyway? You are ready to jump ship if anything you don't like changes, even if it doesn't have anything to do with your system. Some loyalty.

Re: Debian and firmware

#129
post #14

As a long time Debian user I'm reluctant to criticize developer ergonomics as I'm not an _active_ contributor. That being said, _as a user_, I've not had any issue locating and using non-free firmware when required, and I would be disappointed to see the project change course by including non-free components in an offical manner. Removing the slight inconvenience (literally clicking a link _on the installation page_…

> My loyalty to Debian would be significantly impacted by such a change. It's so funny that this doesn't affect you at all but merely making the platform more accessible "significantly impacts" your loyalty. Doesn't that mean your loyalty was conditional anyway? You are ready to jump ship if anything you don't like changes, even if it doesn't have anything to do with your system. Some loyalty.

the generous interpretation of their comment is that their loyalty is predicated on an understanding of shared values; if it transpires that the values are not, in fact, shared, then their relationship may require re-evaluation.

Re: Debian and firmware

#130
post #14

As a long time Debian user I'm reluctant to criticize developer ergonomics as I'm not an _active_ contributor. That being said, _as a user_, I've not had any issue locating and using non-free firmware when required, and I would be disappointed to see the project change course by including non-free components in an offical manner. Removing the slight inconvenience (literally clicking a link _on the installation page_…

> My loyalty to Debian would be significantly impacted by such a change. It's so funny that this doesn't affect you at all but merely making the platform more accessible "significantly impacts" your loyalty. Doesn't that mean your loyalty was conditional anyway? You are ready to jump ship if anything you don't like changes, even if it doesn't have anything to do with your system. Some loyalty.

Depending on PoV, you can consider incorporating non-free stuff as making it less accessible.
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