Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#291

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #65

jnmandal wrote: post #43

Having your housing stock bought up as holdings by nonresidents is not great. It hollows out the communities by having choice housing sit empty and it raises the cost of living for everyone who is actually there. I'm interested to see how this plays out. It seems pretty heavy handed. Zoning denser housing or placing limited restrictions on square footage may proved smarter in the long term. That said, two years is pr…

Prediction: barely anything happens and problems continue to rise as population numbers have yet to peak and the people who are struggling most with this problem, the working class, continues to lose wealth relatively to the upper classes. Almost every country with these problems has similar symptoms and the problem could've been seen coming from decades away. Tackling these things requires far, far more input from g…

The problem is selling real estate as "Surefire gains that never go down" and people pinning their entire life to the value of their home.

This leads to people who rabidly defend the systems that increase their property value, and these people also tend to be the local voting majority, so they can shoot down anything that they don't like.

The solution is declaring emergency powers to use eminent domain to seize unused property and build medium to high density housing on it. Yeah we'll have a few 6-fig account managers handcuffing themselves to bulldozers, but eventually it will get through.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#292

Post by fennecfoxen » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

libertine wrote: post #212

fennecfoxen wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are translating between a lump sum and an income stream. They are making a six-figure asset available for the low four figures a month, without someone needing to bring six figures of money, or five to six figures of down payment and closing costs and five times as much debt. If the six figure asset actually falls 50% in value, the tenant is not stuck and does not lose a penny. In short, they’re offering homes t…

Yeah, except you have to take into account that "valuable achievement", or let's frame it as a "game" that's played, is being played for a long time without the involvement of massive corporations that hoard houses. But you might have pinpointed a couple of problems, so either: - Those corporations are driving the costs of buying homes so high that regular people are being pushed out, because, you know... they are pl…

Why would I model a serious transaction as a "game" with achievements?

> they are playing with funny money

YES YES YES YES! Negative real interest rates are pretty damn funny! We should have ended them long ago. We are now beginning to pay the price. You have identified a key way to help end the trends that you do not want to see.

> People's income is so crushed

They are being crushed by inflation! Another blow against ultra low interest rates! RATE HIKE! RATE HIKE! RATE HIKE!

> Why can't people rent to other people like it was done in the past? Why aren't regular people being allowed to play this game?

You're totally allowed!! Go buy a house, and rent out the house. You will probably need money for a down payment, but you can still get a mortgage at negative real interest rates — and if it is in the US and it is a conforming mortgage (The main contraindication here is that you will experience risk, and you may be intolerant to that risk. Your investment could end up underwater, and it's hard to diversify because it's such a big asset relative to your income. This may explain why corporations are better able to do it these days.

> Even if it was a bad game to play, they're still taking houses away from those who want to buy and not rent.

It's true! Existing home-owners are not required to sell to another aspiring home-owner, and are free to sell their property as they see fit. This means that aspiring home-owners must compete with renters (and the people who renters pay, corporations). The renters (and the corporations they pay) may be willing to offer more! The existing home-owner benefits, while the aspiring home-owner does not!

There are lots of ways to use the law to strongarm people into dealing with a politically favored class, at the expense of a politically disfavored class! Some of them are discussed in these threads! I'm not a fan, myself, and believe it will harm the nation and its economy by distorting the economy into doing different things that make less sense and leave the nation overall poorer as a consequence with less money to spend on things that are more meaningful, but if you would benefit maybe you would be a fan!

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#293

Post by car_analogy » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #130

A quick look at the data suggests only about 2% of properties in Toronto and Vancouver are owned by overseas investors. Yes, housing is priced at the margin, but this won't do anything at all to prices over the long term. I'm sure this will be wildly popular politically, because people LOVE the idea that some foreign boogieman is the reason their children can't afford homes anymore. It's much easier to outsource your…

> only about 2% of properties in Toronto and Vancouver are owned by overseas investors. Yes, housing is priced at the margin, but this won't do anything at all to prices over the long term. I'm sure this will be wildly popular politically, because people LOVE the idea that some foreign boogieman is the reason their children can't afford homes anymore.

Overseas investors may own only 2%, but Canada has 23% foreign-born population. That's a lot of demand. Granted this law does nothing to address that, but it plays perfectly into the foreign boogieman you dismiss.

Source: https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/dai/btd/othervisuals/other006

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#294

Post by bitshiftfaced » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #283

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sales almost never fall through. If the buyer cannot get financing etc, the seller keeps their 10% deposit. The seller cannot back out. In the states, once the purchase agreement is signed, the home goes through inspection at some point before the sale. The inspector finds a hundred little problems with the house, and the buyer can back out of the sale for any little complaint.

This is only possible in a slow market. Right now, in DC metro, all contingencies are being waived, bids are $100k+ over list on moderately priced homes, and the seller is demanding a 2-month free "rent" back from the buyer. Both my home purchases have waived inspection. The second waived financing contingencies as well. This isn't uncommon, based on what friends and family have done.

I wouldn't say a "slow market." I'd say a "normal market." The market right now is anything but normal.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#295

Post by alistairSH » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:48 PM UTC

boplicity wrote: post #195

pards wrote: post #98

I'm a homeowner in Toronto and I don't think this will help. They've eliminated a small number of buyers from the market but have added other incentives like a first home buyers tax credit that will only fuel the fire - Australia tried this with tragic results. >> working with provinces and territories to develop and implement a Home Buyers’ Bill of Rights and bring forward a national plan to end blind bidding. Blind…

I live in Toronto as well. We make a good income, have large savings for a down payment, and recently thought about buying a house. It's depressing. So, I decided to look at the City Plan -- to see what the actual plan is for addressing the housing cost crisis in Toronto. Not surprisingly, the real problem became very clear to me, almost immediately. The problem is not blind bidding. The problem is not foreign buyers…

> If, for example, an existing zoning by-law permits only single detached houses in a particular geographic neighbourhood and the prevailing building type in that neighbourhood is single detached dwellings, then the

Totally agree with you.

I just returned home from a visit to Cape Canaveral, Florida. It has a true mixed residential pattern. Lots of singles, duplexes, and small apartment blocks mixed. Felt "natural", scaled well, etc. I'm sure there are problems, but from a short visit, it looked like a reasonable assortment of housing.

Hopefully this link works... https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3905172,-80.6008949,3a,75y,3...

That's a small single, with a small apartment block next door, with a slightly larger block two down.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3905172,-80.6008949,3a,75y,1...

Same spot, looking to other side of street, mostly duplexes, with a few singles.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#296

Post by usrn » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:49 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #291

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prediction: barely anything happens and problems continue to rise as population numbers have yet to peak and the people who are struggling most with this problem, the working class, continues to lose wealth relatively to the upper classes. Almost every country with these problems has similar symptoms and the problem could've been seen coming from decades away. Tackling these things requires far, far more input from g…

The problem is selling real estate as "Surefire gains that never go down" and people pinning their entire life to the value of their home. This leads to people who rabidly defend the systems that increase their property value, and these people also tend to be the local voting majority, so they can shoot down anything that they don't like. The solution is declaring emergency powers to use eminent domain to seize unuse…

Before you do that you better make damned sure you're doing the right thing. You're literally kicking people out of their homes and forcing them to move. We did that to the Indians a couple centuries ago and the consequences for both sides were not great. We did that to Mexican migratory workers last century and the result was the almost complete destruction of a country that shares a large land border with us. We're only beginning to experience the consequences from that.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#297

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:49 PM UTC

Building more housing is the only "pure" way out of this.

Fuck nimbys, the government needs to just step in an do it.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#298

Post by Ekaros » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:49 PM UTC

RocketOne wrote: post #183

sokoloff wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Realtors are (transparently disclosed as) working for the seller. Why wouldn't they do that? It's literally their job and everyone knows it. It's certainly the case that the agent who knows that a particular bidder is the highest/most attractive offer is working for the seller.

The buyer's realtor is supposed to be working in the buyer's best interest and getting the lowest price possible. In reality it doesn't often work that way, especially when the buyer and seller realtors know each other. I just bought a house and both realtors ended up being from the same office, and are good friends. Do I honestly think I got the best price? Not likely.

Coming from country(Finland) where the buyer does not employ realtor the whole thing of buyer paying someone to get house feels weird. And seller's realtor really doesn't only care about price, but also about the speed they can sell the property, thus spending less time on it.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#299

Post by otterley » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #245

bko wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why does something like blind bidding exist in real estate? It could exist in all sorts of places but doesn't. Imagine blind bidding when interviewing for a job. Write down the number you'd be willing to do the job for. Someone came in with a lower number, please resubmit. These weird market distortions in real estate have underlying causes. A lot of them are based off patchwork rules and regulations…

The revenue equivalence theorem for auctions suggests it doesn't matter that much. Now, empirical testing has shown violations of this theorem, but the magnitude of the violations are not so huge as to really move the needle. Someone might be paying 10% more in a sealed bid first price auction than they otherwise would, but it's unlikely that it's more than that, and it may be a good deal less or none at all. No matt…

A 10% difference translates to a lot of money for a middle class homebuyer. That’s often enough to buy a new car.

Re: Canada bans foreign home buyers for two years

#300

Post by tryauuum » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

dale_glass wrote: post #256

waqf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, what should I consider before moving to Serbia and buying an apartment for $40k?

Well, just a few things that come to mind: * Speaking the language -- in some places they don't speak much English, and certainly don't do official paperwork in it. * Local laws * Safety * How much stuff you need is going to be nearby * Internet access * Local culture * Employment * Friends and family Like, I don't know much about Serbia (just looked up where housing is cheap), but from what I hear I could get a pret…

some nitpicking: internet in Russia is very fast and stable. But you are right when you say "restricted". The retarded government tries to ban some websites.