Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Scahill on the Russia-Ukraine War, the Media, Propaganda • Hacker News Board

Re: Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Scahill on the Russia-Ukraine War, the Media, Propaganda

#31

Post by blub » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 7:14 AM UTC

akhmatova wrote: post #27

There are two ways for a war to end: One way is for one side or the other to be basically destroyed. The other way is some negotiated settlement History readily provides an infinite number of counterexamples, more or less along the theme of "mutual, or one-sided exhaustion (but still far short of one-sided destruction)". WW I, the US/Soviet failures in Afghanistan and most colonial occupations for that matter immedia…

Mutual or one-sided exhaustion is indistinguishable from regular war until it happens and at least in this case the hope of reaching such a state is based on continuous escalation.

Negotiated settlement is very broad and would include such “exhaustion” cases. Should it be treated separately? For a theoretical discussion on how to end war, perhaps. But in this particular case, the US is playing a dangerous escalatory game and it neither can it be guaranteed that it will achieve the stated purpose, nor that this is indeed the actual purpose. Perhaps the actual goal is regime change, or taking back Crimea or another thing which has totally different implication from exhausting an opponent.

Re: Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Scahill on the Russia-Ukraine War, the Media, Propaganda

#32

Post by blub » Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 7:32 AM UTC

fvdessen wrote: post #14

> There are two ways for a war to end: One way is for one side or the other to be basically destroyed. And the Russians are not going to be destroyed. So that means one way is for Ukraine to be destroyed. > The other way is some negotiated settlement. If there’s a third way, no one’s ever figured it out. The third way is for the war to be too costly to continue for the agressor. I believe the USA is aiming for that b…

Technically you’re correct and I think he should have mentioned this. Would have been interested to see what kind of arguments he’d bring forth…

As I said in another comment though, making war costly is basically just waging war. Maybe it will become too costly in one month, maybe one year, maybe five. Maybe Russia will lob a couple of tactical nukes in the direction of Ukraine. Maybe China and India or India and Pakistan get into a hot war because Russia is distracted.

Exhaustion is not a precise strategy and it’s not a short-term or even mid-term strategy when one looks at the Soviet-Afghan war or the Vietnam war. Years of death and destruction can hardly be called a strategy.

Re: Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Scahill on the Russia-Ukraine War, the Media, Propaganda

#33

Post by throwuxiytayq » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

qiskit wrote: post #13

Mikeb85 wrote: post #2

Lots about the US, not much about Ukraine. Ukraine isn't a pawn on a board for two nations to play with, it's a country. NC makes good points if that's how you see the world but his opinions are outdated. People deserve to have self-determination now that it's a modern, globalized world (I mean they always did, but nation states matter even less now).

> People deserve to have self-determination now that it's a modern, globalized world What do you mean by "people" and "self-determination". If 51% of the southerners decided to secede from the US, should they be allowed? What about the rights of the 49% southerners who want to remain with the US? Are they not people? What about the rest of americans? Do we not get a say? Besides, in the modern world, the supreme cour…

Bruh. Ain't nobody wanna be part of Russia nowhere. You don't go out often, do you?

Re: Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Scahill on the Russia-Ukraine War, the Media, Propaganda

#34

Post by dang » Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN, and certainly not ones where the single purpose is political.

Just to be clear, minority/contrarian views aren't the issue—it would be the same if the account was promoting majority views. HN is not a site for ideological or political or nationalistic battle—it's a site for intellectual curiosity, and it's not possible to have both of those things at the same time.

I've therefore banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.