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Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

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21–30 of 81 posts

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#21
Lithium hydroxide sales could fund restoration of the Salton Sea using the "perimeter lake" concept or one of the other plans for a partial freshwater lake that doesn't require a large diversion of fresh water from the Colorado. Center would be dry playa with some irrigated vegetation or dry salt crust to prevent dust problems, maybe even golf course(s). Southern end of the lake would have brine habitat mostly for birds and geothermal/lithium plants. Total cost is roughly $10B which Lithium extraction would cover easily.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#22
post #21

Lithium hydroxide sales could fund restoration of the Salton Sea using the "perimeter lake" concept or one of the other plans for a partial freshwater lake that doesn't require a large diversion of fresh water from the Colorado. Center would be dry playa with some irrigated vegetation or dry salt crust to prevent dust problems, maybe even golf course(s). Southern end of the lake would have brine habitat mostly for bi…

Not really the topic but the area around the Salton Sea is one of the wildest things I’ve ever seen. It literally looks like an apocalyptic wasteland.

There’s ruined, half buried buildings near the shores. Tons of abandoned structures. Also the air was so acrid it was burning my eyes and nose the entire time.

Absolutely surreal. Wouldn’t be out of place in a Fallout game.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#23
post #2

is this similar to e3 metals?

Not really. E3 is in a wet region in Canada. California is a desert. This plan might fuck up California. How can they source potable fresh water for lithium extraction from brine without increasing salinity at Salton Sea? Also..we are in the midst of one of our scheduled droughts. I am sure there are real experts looking into this..and there is probably something that is in the plans to deal with this. Maybe someone…

> How can they source potable fresh water for lithium extraction

Why would they use potable (AKA drinking) water for lithium extraction from the brine? Nothing in the described extraction process involves potable water.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#24
The top voted question (tied with one about the new battery performance) on the Tesla Q&A is

,,How does Tesla plan to secure raw materials required to scale to extreme size?''

I'm quite interested in the answer as well (which we'll get on APRIL 20, 2022 4:30 PM CDT)

https://app.saytechnologies.com/tesla-2022-q1

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#26
post #2

is this similar to e3 metals?

Not really. E3 is in a wet region in Canada. California is a desert. This plan might fuck up California. How can they source potable fresh water for lithium extraction from brine without increasing salinity at Salton Sea? Also..we are in the midst of one of our scheduled droughts. I am sure there are real experts looking into this..and there is probably something that is in the plans to deal with this. Maybe someone…

so is e3 a better method?

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#27
post #20

The last 5 to 10 years has had a succession of doom-sayers riding the Paul Ehrlich line to "we will run out" -And as Julian Simons bet [0] showed, it may be true but it's based on a false premise of supply chain logistics, mining and planning. In absolute terms yes, there is a finite amount of lithium in the crust. Transmutation aside, What we see in real life is unequal distribution and then bad modelling on assumpt…

Sodium Ion batteries are approaching somewhere in the 120-160 wh/kg in production, per CATL. I believe 200 wh/kg is on the industry "roadmap" in 3-5 years.

I believe Sodium Ion is like LFP in its safety with thermal runaway, so it, like LFP, doesn't require as much cooling and equipment overhead so its Cell-to-Module, or even better, Cell-to-Pack is bettery than cobalt/nickel li-ion chemistries.

A sodium ion battery that CATL says it is putting in production is sufficient for low-end consumer EV transport: the 100 mile city car, possibly a 200-mile one with good drivetrain design, if the Cell-to-Pack napkin math works out correctly.

Concurrent with this, LFP batteries are reaching 200-230 wh/kg this year, which thanks to their bettery thermal protection, means the Cell-to-Pack density should be "good to go" for almost all Tesla car ranges today (my napkin math on Cell-to-Pack shows 400 miles for a model 3 for 230 wh/kg LFP).

The extended range Tesla vehicles are overkill for 90% of world drivers, and at least 80% of Americans. The 300 mile range is the perfect range for the "next 10 years".

The napkin math then says you can combine sodium ion and LFP to get to 300 mile pack designs, and no cobalt/nickel, reduced lithium from sodium ion, probably a 50/50 split or similar.

This is for the next 2-4 years of mainstream car / EV production scaling, which is may be the most important for kickstarting true widespread EV and averting climate change that we have left.

Hopefully in 2-4 years we get the following (per roadmaps):

- 260+ wh/kg LFP

- 180-200 wh/kg sodium ion

That will mean all-sodium 300 mile range cars, mixed sodium/LFP for long range, light trucks, possibly long haul shipping + container ships.

If we get 400 wk/kg or better solid state battery or Li-S, then all the better. Mix in those as needed, or maybe short haul aviation becomes possible, but the important thing is that for the majority of ground transport, sodium ion and lfp will serve to scale out huge portions of carbon emissions from transportation.

wh/kg cited are all cell densities, but there is reference to Cell-to-pack being 90% of cell density for LFP and Sodium Ion approaches, which is where are the napkin math begins.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#28
post #22
post #21

Lithium hydroxide sales could fund restoration of the Salton Sea using the "perimeter lake" concept or one of the other plans for a partial freshwater lake that doesn't require a large diversion of fresh water from the Colorado. Center would be dry playa with some irrigated vegetation or dry salt crust to prevent dust problems, maybe even golf course(s). Southern end of the lake would have brine habitat mostly for bi…

Not really the topic but the area around the Salton Sea is one of the wildest things I’ve ever seen. It literally looks like an apocalyptic wasteland. There’s ruined, half buried buildings near the shores. Tons of abandoned structures. Also the air was so acrid it was burning my eyes and nose the entire time. Absolutely surreal. Wouldn’t be out of place in a Fallout game.

And it is in fact the inspiration for "Sandy Shores" in GTA5.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#29
post #20

The last 5 to 10 years has had a succession of doom-sayers riding the Paul Ehrlich line to "we will run out" -And as Julian Simons bet [0] showed, it may be true but it's based on a false premise of supply chain logistics, mining and planning. In absolute terms yes, there is a finite amount of lithium in the crust. Transmutation aside, What we see in real life is unequal distribution and then bad modelling on assumpt…

>replace all ICE with EV

I'm honestly not convinced this will happen. I think the ratio will get a lot more even but I highly doubt ICE will be replaced. Especially as the atmospheric CO2 concentration increases the economic viability of reducing it back into hydrocarbons increases. Already it's much easier to grow microalgae than it was during the first government experiments in the 60s. As these technologies improve there will be continued downward pressure on the price of petroleum products despite the state of oil drilling and the regulatory pressure against them will be gone because this makes them carbon neutral.

On top of that there are still applications where electric motors just don't make that much sense. Also transporting and storing energy in a fluid is far easier than transporting it in a battery.

Re: Lithium drilling advances at the Salton Sea

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. E3 is in a wet region in Canada. California is a desert. This plan might fuck up California. How can they source potable fresh water for lithium extraction from brine without increasing salinity at Salton Sea? Also..we are in the midst of one of our scheduled droughts. I am sure there are real experts looking into this..and there is probably something that is in the plans to deal with this. Maybe someone…

> How can they source potable fresh water for lithium extraction Why would they use potable (AKA drinking) water for lithium extraction from the brine? Nothing in the described extraction process involves potable water.

Lithium recovery requires fresh water. Tons of it. Using fresh water for lithium extraction is going to affect ..and take away from our potable water sources needed for the 40 something million CA residents.
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