21–30 of 34 posts
There of course is a third way. Russian people toppling their own government, bringing an end to the command structure and thus the war. Russians should take inspiration from Sri Lanka. They are on the streets everyday until the government is toppled.
This is just a route to get to number 2
> There are two ways for a war to end: One way is for one side or the other to be basically destroyed. And the Russians are not going to be destroyed. So that means one way is for Ukraine to be destroyed. > The other way is some negotiated settlement. If there’s a third way, no one’s ever figured it out. The third way is for the war to be too costly to continue for the agressor. I believe the USA is aiming for that b…
Three leads to number two
That was all the US deciding to give up and go home. There wasn’t really a negotiated settlement.
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Yes, they used the might of the people to get the concessions they wanted.
They used the powerless (or at least less powerful) to provoke the conscience of the more powerful to get what they wanted.
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This is just a route to get to number 2
No. Number 2 is negotiated settlement between Russia and Ukraine. Number 3 is a toppled government leading to a fizzled war. No settlement.
There is a lot that needs to be settled. Do troops stay in place? Does Crimea go back to Ukraine? Does Russia owe reparations?
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Three leads to number two
Not in Afghanistan. Not in Korea. Not in Vietnam. That was all the US deciding to give up and go home. There wasn’t really a negotiated settlement.
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No. Number 2 is negotiated settlement between Russia and Ukraine. Number 3 is a toppled government leading to a fizzled war. No settlement.
How does a fizzled war end? A new government starts talking to Ukraine. There is a lot that needs to be settled. Do troops stay in place? Does Crimea go back to Ukraine? Does Russia owe reparations?
See Bangladesh separation from Pakistan.
History readily provides an infinite number of counterexamples, more or less along the theme of "mutual, or one-sided exhaustion (but still far short of one-sided destruction)". WW I, the US/Soviet failures in Afghanistan and most colonial occupations for that matter immediately spring to mind.
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Not in Afghanistan. Not in Korea. Not in Vietnam. That was all the US deciding to give up and go home. There wasn’t really a negotiated settlement.
Certainly in Afghanistan, there were discussions, a departure date, and agreements
And long after the average Jane and Joe on the street could be expected to care even a whit about about what was happening in that far-off nominal protectorate, or why.
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No. Might makes it happen, but it doesn't make it right . That's the difference between "is" and "ought". The alternative is that we have no category for "ought" or "should be" - that "is" is all there is, that there is no hope to improve the world, nor any way to suggest a direction to improve it in. That's a pretty hopeless outlook, and one that I reject. But you're right that "should" or "ought" often needs to hav…
Sorry but this is a simple binary: the person with no gun will always do what the person with the gun tells them to, or they will get shot and probably die. That's reality. For the last 20 years or so we've been living in a world where the US called the shots pretty much everywhere, and we were cool with it because (most of us here) were on the US 'side'. 'Globalization' during this period was and is a complete sham,…
To me it looks like this comment describes in detail how international relations work through realpolitik (which I agree is basically how it's done if you want any semblance of predictive power, as opposed to focusing on any stated moral values of players).
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Certainly in Afghanistan, there were discussions, a departure date, and agreements
But that were pretty much pro forma , after the Occupier pretty much signaled they were ready to throw in the towel. And long after the average Jane and Joe on the street could be expected to care even a whit about about what was happening in that far-off nominal protectorate, or why.