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Assume your devices are compromised

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Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#181

Post by g3rv4 »

cyphar wrote: post #134
phphphphp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I debate this with myself often. Short of renting a security box and telling people I trust about it, I haven’t come up with a strategy for the master password. At the moment, I’ve resigned myself to the feeling that if I lose my memory, maybe it’ll be the opportunity for a fresh start, and so losing everything is a feature not a bug.

I wrote a tool for this[1,2], though it's still a work in progress (all the features work but I still need to finalise the QR data format and work on user-friendly interfaces). [1]: https://github.com/cyphar/paperback [2]: https://youtu.be/GI9rKdM9rB8

I wish I found your app before I wrote mine [1] :) you seem to be way better versed in cryptography than I am. What's the advantage of having the main document and the keys separated?

[1]: https://g3rv4.com/2022/04/using-shamir-secret-sharing

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#182

Post by pontifier »

PokestarFan wrote: post #161
pontifier wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that article has a huge list of "data exfiltration channels" that are possible attack vectors. This is an interesting problem, and I hope that I'm somehow able to trust again.

Honestly the only 100% secure way to store something is to write it down on physical paper and then guard that.

The problem with that is usability. If I need to sign a transaction that security is lost the moment the key is entered into the signing computer.

Proximity seems to be key to most of these attacks, so maybe physically excluding any possible eavesdroppers, and adding noise sources would create a shell equivalent to guarding that piece of paper.

I also anticipate gathering old/very limited electronics that can be visually inspected or don't have extra capacity to run malicious code to allow auditing the mechanisms of computation.

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#183

Post by orangepurple »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #180
orangepurple wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSH tunnel with passwords disabled; use ed25519 keys. Or wireguard if you are feeling adventurous

So then you need to keep SSH or WireGuard up-to-date (at least in terms of security patches). Also, are you going to SSH in every time you need to access a document from your phone? Again, use-cases differ, but that's not a 1-to-1 alternative to, say, Dropbox.

You would use wireguard for that use case, possibly on a regularly updated computer, and update your network firewall rules to accommodate that setup.

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#184

Post by zikduruqe »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #173
yeetsfromhellL2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more of a thought experiment, but would also serve as a decent backup in case of natural disaster, house burning down, etc. As for safety deposit boxes, those can be closed out for nonpayment, bank branches will shut down, etc. Not the best hands off long term solution. An attorney will let you know if there's an issue because it's their ass on the line if they don't.

Unless they die.

That's why you use Shamir's Secret Sharing...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#185

Post by belval »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #174
belval wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bitwarden password manager is hosted and is only stored encrypted on your phone/laptop. So unless the thief knows your master password you should be fine.

I understand that the thief won't have access to my accounts, but now I don't either - correct?

You would still have access to your accounts as the credentials are hosted by BitWarden or by yourself (on a personal server for example).

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#186

Post by Tijdreiziger »

orangepurple wrote: post #183
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then you need to keep SSH or WireGuard up-to-date (at least in terms of security patches). Also, are you going to SSH in every time you need to access a document from your phone? Again, use-cases differ, but that's not a 1-to-1 alternative to, say, Dropbox.

You would use wireguard for that use case, possibly on a regularly updated computer, and update your network firewall rules to accommodate that setup.

Yes, but you agree you need to apply security patches in that case, right?

Your original comment amounted to "you don't need to apply updates if you firewall everything", to which I replied "that's not a replacement for a cloud service". Your subsequent comments then amount to "well you can just poke a hole in your firewall for WireGuard". So which is it, do you need to apply updates (e.g. to WireGuard) or not?

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#187

Post by orangepurple »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #186
orangepurple wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would use wireguard for that use case, possibly on a regularly updated computer, and update your network firewall rules to accommodate that setup.

Yes, but you agree you need to apply security patches in that case, right? Your original comment amounted to "you don't need to apply updates if you firewall everything", to which I replied "that's not a replacement for a cloud service". Your subsequent comments then amount to "well you can just poke a hole in your firewall for WireGuard". So which is it, do you need to apply updates (e.g. to WireGuard) or not?

I suppose you can maintain secure remote access if you run a very minimal wireguard server on a low power device similar to a raspberry pi running on a updated/patched distro. You can still keep 99% of your gear running in the back without updates. This way the amount of update churn can be minimized.

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#188

Post by orangepurple »

g3rv4 wrote: post #168
orangepurple wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lose your memory you better have instructions written clearly on paper not some app which you won't remember how to build or install

instructions are on my blog :)

And if you can't update your blog or can't pay for it because you lost your memory? The low tech solutions can't be beat, especially if you expect others to help you pick up the pieces with minimial technical sophistication.

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#189

Post by g3rv4 »

orangepurple wrote: post #188
g3rv4 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

instructions are on my blog :)

And if you can't update your blog or can't pay for it because you lost your memory? The low tech solutions can't be beat, especially if you expect others to help you pick up the pieces with minimial technical sophistication.

I agree, if I lost my memory and can't remember how to access my blog or run docker then I'd be out of my digital life.

In that scenario though, I'd also be out of my digital life even if I had access to 1password.

Re: Assume your devices are compromised

#190

Post by pavel_lishin »

bell-cot wrote: post #179
pavel_lishin wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just write down my accounts and passwords on an index card, laminate it, and give it to my wife to store in the safety deposit box. Much less tedious, and concentrates trust in the one person who should have it - the spouse!

Last I paid attention, some jurisdictions make it very difficult to access the contents of a safe deposit box after one of the owners has died. (Supposedly to discourage cheating on inheritance taxes with gold coins, or ...) A bit of research might be indicated, before trusting this strategy to perform when needed.

She could store it in her safety deposit box. Or in a fire safe we keep at home. Or buried in a tin can in the backyard.
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