Europe's now-drowned 'lost world' and the 25m-high tsunami that finished it off

Post by anonAndOn » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #42

greatpostman wrote: post #4

I think it’s pretty clear that sophisticated societies existed long before recorded history. They may not have had the tools of working with metal, but they definitely had sophisticated philosophical views and moral frameworks. I would bet this goes back even 30-50 thousand years. This idea that humanity sprang up out of nothing in Sumerian/Babylon is very contrived. There was an ice age ten thousand years ago, the c…

Civilization means people living in cities. To do that, agriculture is probably needed. There's also probably some level of specialization and accompanying social stratification. History is written records. There were many prehistoric societies, but because civilization tended to have some form of written records, the prehistoric societies are not considered civilizations. No scholars would clai that humanity sprang…

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

chucksmash wrote: post #34

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the absence of proof, the simplest assumption would be that humans then were just as human, and so had sophisticated societies etc.

A simpler alternative assumption could be this: 1. sophistication is driven by specialization 2. the ability to specialize is driven by access to surplus energy 3. before the advent of agriculture bands of humans simply did not have the excess calories available to them to support a priesthood and philosophers and bureaucrats, etc.

Post by ge96 » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #57

dleslie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are known city sites that predate agriculture in their regions.

I assume you're referring to Çatalhöyük ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk )?

Post by vasco » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:49 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #63

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I chose to use that word to preempt nitpicky objections about measuring oxytocin in dog brains (which doesn't actually tell you anything about the subjective experience the dog feels.) 'Qualia' refers specifically to the subjective conscious experience, which is something science is presently ill-equipped to answer questions about. The word 'qualities' does not have the same rhetorical effect. As an aside, what's the…

Post by habosa » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 7:54 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #42

greatpostman wrote: post #4

I think it’s pretty clear that sophisticated societies existed long before recorded history. They may not have had the tools of working with metal, but they definitely had sophisticated philosophical views and moral frameworks. I would bet this goes back even 30-50 thousand years. This idea that humanity sprang up out of nothing in Sumerian/Babylon is very contrived. There was an ice age ten thousand years ago, the c…

Civilization means people living in cities. To do that, agriculture is probably needed. There's also probably some level of specialization and accompanying social stratification. History is written records. There were many prehistoric societies, but because civilization tended to have some form of written records, the prehistoric societies are not considered civilizations. No scholars would clai that humanity sprang…