Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty much this. At the moment, I am trying to sort this out for my parents who bought a MacBook Air to replace a 12" MacBook and want to know if it is still possible to use a pair of 23" 1080p HP displays with it. They don't care about resolution so much, nor does my brother who tested this setup with his 2017 MacBook - bad keyboard and all. (On that front, last I heard, there was a hidden preference for non-HiDPI…
At least one person at work is using something like that to drive two displays from the M1, so I suspect it can be made to work well enough.
M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
211–220 of 333 posts
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#212Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#213Quoted post unavailable.
> Even software that is directly ported has trouble because M1 tile memory cache is designed for minimal tasks, not heavy computing, and computationally heavy software has to be re-written from scratch to optimize it for the platform. Huh? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Tile based memory refers to the GPU, and you don't have to rewrite your GPU software from scratch, that's insane? That's what Metal is…
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#214The inability of the USB standards body to stick to a versioning scheme beggars belief: what in the world could "USB 3.1 Gen 2" possibly mean? Versions are free, why not simply name it "USB 3.2" and make the next one 3.3? "Gen 2" strikes me as the "Essay FINAL (final version 2).docx" of standards revisions.
I think it would be fine IF the higher numbers were universal supersets of previous versions of USB. 'i don't care what this version is it's the highest" seems fair. At least the "universal" aspect applies over time. It's the apples of the world who seem to be on divergent fork with superior and inferior types of functionality that really disrespect the "universal" moniker... While also ambiguating exactly which USB…
Don't start me on the Pro / Max / Ultra... which one is the best? Which one _should_ be the best, given the moniker of 'maximum'?
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
What sucks, however, is that you can transfer 1TB to a USB drive correctly, and then finally have a bit-error that spoils the entire transfer and might even corrupt your drive. Happened to me several times during testing on different machines and with different cables and drives (luckily no real data was lost, but USB is now sort of banned from my office for use with external harddrives). Any sane protocol would be a…
Use a filesystem that does end-to-end error detection and correction. I use ZFS on all of my USB drives (even "real" SATA and M.2 SSDs via adaptors) and it frequently finds checksum errors (and thanks to the design of ZFS, is able to completely recover without any risk of further corruption).
I can remember losing a USB drive that way, even though it was using a journaling filesystem.
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#216The inability of the USB standards body to stick to a versioning scheme beggars belief: what in the world could "USB 3.1 Gen 2" possibly mean? Versions are free, why not simply name it "USB 3.2" and make the next one 3.3? "Gen 2" strikes me as the "Essay FINAL (final version 2).docx" of standards revisions.
This is why it's baffling to me that the EU wants to hand this particular forum a legal monopoly on the connector and protocol standards we all have to use in our devices, and that people actually think that's a super good idea that will work out well.
At best they're an incredibly logjammed body, the only reason Lightning exists is because USB-IF couldn't settle on a replacement for USB Micro-B and after years of debate and still no progress Apple finally just went around them (which lit a fire under them to pass USB-C finally). Kinda similar to the way VESA waffled on the Adaptive Sync draft standard for years and years until NVIDIA just finally went around them and implemented their own VRR sync standard, which finally gave the other members the incentive to shit and get off the pot.
Even still, the only thing they could agree on was a "kitchen sink" standard that's ridiculously cumbersome and expensive and complicated - USB-C cables require hand-termination and will simply always be more expensive than an equivalent machine-assembled lightning or micro-B cable [0], and most cables (and for that matter, most devices/connectors/etc) don't support the functional capabilities promised by the USB-C advocates. One cable doesn't do everything, and most devices and cables in fact won't do most of the things that USB-C is capable of delivering. The standard is in fact so complex that most cables get it wrong to a dangerous degree (devices can be destroyed by improperly-implemented cables) as one of Google's engineers discovered [1] when he started systematically testing cables for standards compliance. And the negotiation is more complex and expensive to implement as well, even if you're only doing a low-capability device. There are just fundamental problems with trying to have a standard that covers everything between 1.5 mbit HID devices and 40 gbit PCIe tunneling in the exact same standard and connector and cable (it sounds absurd to even say that).
These standards bodies often don't work very well, and handing them the keys to the kingdom basically guarantees at least some degree of slowed progress and increase in market deadweight. If we mandated that everyone adopt VESA and that HDMI would be illegal to sell in the EU - that would produce similar deadweight loss in the display connection standards as well. Etc etc. IMO while you do want standards - you want at least two standards bodies so that you don't end up in the USB-IF situation where one of them has a legal monopoly.
(not that that's a panacea - by the way - Apple also is advertising HDMI 2.1 and yet they only support 4K60 [2], they are another one of the companies who took advantage of the HDMI Consortium's new standards branding where they do the same thing as USB and HDMI 2.1 can actually be a rubberstamp reapproval of HDMI 2.0b hardware. [3])
I think a lot of people get really wrapped up in the whole "android vs apple" thing and don't really think about what exactly they're doing, they're just happy "their side" won. But in the long term it's going to be far more difficult to actually get improvements passed, because it's legally impossible to produce innovative products that exist outside USB-IF standards if you want to sell in the EU, and USB-IF just doesn't work at all.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Tmtd51clI
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-find...
[2] https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/specs/ (they actually seem to have rolled back the "HDMI 2.1" advertising on a lot of devices but they missed a few! There is, technically, a footnote however.)
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
What sucks, however, is that you can transfer 1TB to a USB drive correctly, and then finally have a bit-error that spoils the entire transfer and might even corrupt your drive. Happened to me several times during testing on different machines and with different cables and drives (luckily no real data was lost, but USB is now sort of banned from my office for use with external harddrives). Any sane protocol would be a…
This doesnt actually happen (single bit errors getting thru). USB 3.1 data is protected with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check#CRC-32... , same CRC as the one used in Ethernet. https://www.rroij.com/open-access/implementation-of-link-lay... USB 3 uses CRC-16, still more than good enough for single bit flips.
Anyway, it still sucks that I couldn't find the exact reason for the error in the logs.
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#218Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#219The inability of the USB standards body to stick to a versioning scheme beggars belief: what in the world could "USB 3.1 Gen 2" possibly mean? Versions are free, why not simply name it "USB 3.2" and make the next one 3.3? "Gen 2" strikes me as the "Essay FINAL (final version 2).docx" of standards revisions.
Re: M1 Thunderbolt ports don’t fully support USB 3.1 Gen 2
#220The inability of the USB standards body to stick to a versioning scheme beggars belief: what in the world could "USB 3.1 Gen 2" possibly mean? Versions are free, why not simply name it "USB 3.2" and make the next one 3.3? "Gen 2" strikes me as the "Essay FINAL (final version 2).docx" of standards revisions.
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