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The Uber Bubble

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Re: The Uber Bubble

#381

Post by Ekaros »

willio58 wrote: post #166
amelius wrote: post #144

Why isn't it illegal to disrupt a market by undercutting the competition in a long-term structural way? What makes it worse is that money is pumped into it like a ponzi scheme (first investors cash, last investors are left with the bubble), which should be illegal in itself.

How would you go about enforcing the alternative? Force companies to charge the same as the their competitors? And how would you evaluate if the undercut is sustainable or not?

Show the numbers. Your incentive programs can't be more than your profits in a single market. That is the price you charge must be higher than the price it takes to pay for what you provide. Some things could be ignored in calculation like capital investments, operating cost and development costs.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#382

Post by Broken_Hippo »

ttcbj wrote: post #58
westcort wrote: post #35

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

These are all interesting points. However, I recently used Uber Premier twice in Miami, after not using any car service for two years, and the experience was excellent. It was fast, friendly, the car was nice, and I was happy with the price. For my use case, I am happy to pay more to get a better service, but it didn’t really seem that expensive. Both drivers had been doing Uber for a long time, which would be surpri…

Both drivers had been doing Uber for a long time, which would be surprising if they were getting ripped off.

If you need to buy food and put a roof over your child's head, you will put up with a lot of things. Being "ripped off" isn't really part of the equation: You can know you are being ripped off while still realizing this is the best way to provide for your child. Folks aren't working fast food for 20 years because they are getting treated well. Same with Uber drivers.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#383

Post by Ekaros »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #103
taylorhou wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's crazy is in this day and age, you'd think uber/lyft are available in most markets but last week, I had to go to Baton Rouge (LSU with 50k students is based there) and I was relegated to a beat up, cigarette smelling, local taxi because no uber/lyft's were available at the airport (due to storms and delayed flights).

I flew to Hartfort, CT (BDL, actually in the rather distant suburb of Windsor Locks CT) last year, and my flight was delayed to about 10:30pm; I almost didn't get an Uber because the market simply doesn't for the drivers to stick around that late. There were other delayed flights coming in after mine, closer to midnight; my driver said quite plainly that those folks would have to figure something else out, because al…

And in well regulated market there would be supply even at that time. Maybe not sufficient, but still guaranteed supply. But oh well people didn't want that... Too bad for them for getting what they wanted.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#384

Post by nicbou »

mjburgess wrote: post #349
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #268

When traveling in India, I foolishly took a cycle rickshaw. It was gross/shameful. A man far less fortunate than I was sweating, working hard, barely getting paid, and breathing horribly polluted New Delhi air while I just sat there. When Uber started to squeeze its drivers, I again felt just like this. I hated hearing drivers complain about their life problems. I hated doing the math and seeing how little these peop…

I'm not following this logic -- do you think it would've been better not to take the rickshaw? You do realise that this man is providing for himself, and perhaps others, by this job? It seems like your issue was being confronted with the "realities of life" which distressed your sensibilities; and your solution appears to be to hide from these. I dont see this as a moral impulse, but a disgust response. If you wished…

Imagine making the same argument for 7 year old chimney sweeps in Victorian England, and the flaw in your argument becomes more obvious.

OP choses not to hire underpaid and overworked labour because it's wrong, even if doing so would provide temporary relief.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#385

Post by forinti »

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #268

When traveling in India, I foolishly took a cycle rickshaw. It was gross/shameful. A man far less fortunate than I was sweating, working hard, barely getting paid, and breathing horribly polluted New Delhi air while I just sat there. When Uber started to squeeze its drivers, I again felt just like this. I hated hearing drivers complain about their life problems. I hated doing the math and seeing how little these peop…

I have used Uber a lot in Brazil and you can clearly perceive the deindustrialization of the country and the consolidation of large retail chains from the conversations with the drivers.

You get lots of people who had small businesses, sometimes even engineers and economists.

The last one I talked to had had a small machining shop.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#387

Post by rajman187 »

nonameking2026 wrote: post #386

My feeling has been for a while they are betting on self driving cars. When that becomes a reality - their cost structure will change dramatically.

They perhaps were for some time, but both Uber and Lyft sold off their autonomous vehicle divisions a few years back. It makes more sense for an established car manufacturer to develop this as they already have the infrastructure to scale this and not require Uber to work on just software/hardware and rely on licensing or contractual agreements with car makers.

They’ve probably both realized it’s a very difficult task to go beyond simple routes and that it’s not a viable investment for a non-profitable company that’s burning through investor money trying to establish a monopoly.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#388

Post by Ekaros »

dylan604 wrote: post #151
yywwbbn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with all this power these companies still somehow never manage to become profitable. It seem to that the consumer is benefiting the most in this situation because both the VC and labor keep having to subsidize him

How much of this "never manage to become profitable" is tricks in accounting? Would investors continue to give money after due diligence looking into the books show this constant loss and say "yes, take my money!"?

I think it's time to forgo this idea that investors do any due diligence anymore. They just look at price going up and someone hyping it going up further and jump on the train, thinking they can sell it for more later... And then justifying the price by some far future market dominance and magic tech actually coming real, see Uber and Tesla... Or even with social media companies like Twitter to actually turn decent profit...

Re: The Uber Bubble

#389

Post by rajman187 »

inamberclad wrote: post #67

Uber as a business is a massive loss, but consumers still _chose_ Uber over taxis because the process of getting and riding in a car is a million times more transparent than a taxi ever was. You can see what car and what driver are picking you up, what route they're going to take, and how much it will cost. Taxis failed because they failed to modernize.

In the UK the black cabs and other taxi services have rolled out similar apps. Uber prices have gone up to the point that a cab is often enough the same price if not cheaper. Never mind that black cab drivers know optimal routes by heart while Uber drivers are often just following phone navigation and getting lost.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#390

Post by frr149 »

The main driver for the ascension of Uber is that everybody hates taxis and taxi drivers. I don't care if it's more expensive or not, I don't want to deal ever again with taxi drivers that are not accountable for their bad service.
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