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The Uber Bubble

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Re: The Uber Bubble

#341

Post by simonjgreen »

chrischen wrote: post #336
masonic wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of movie productions infamously do not have positive cash flow. You're confusing cash flow with declared income/loss . The shenanigans pulled on shows like "Columbo" and "The Rockford Files", resulted in high-quality, long-successful shows showing "losses" by the studio, are classic examples. Search on "Hollywood Accounting."

Corporations do the same thing via end of year bonuses and dividends. Those things are considered expenses too and can be used to offset income. If Uber is going to get taxed 20% on their excess income for the year or they can give out some bonuses to their employees, incentive bonuses to their drivers, and ramp up their marketing spend, what do you think they'll do? You can't just declare 0 income. You have to actua…

Minor note that dividends are below the net profit line. You can't pay a dividend without profit.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#342

Post by aemreunal »

Like many people here, I share the negative sentiment towards yellow taxis. It's simply a sordid experience. Arguing with the drivers to not get figuratively (and actually on one occasion in NYC) robbed, trying to convince drivers that where you're going is worth their time, the rudeness you endure, the list is just endless...

As long as taxi drivers resist any improvements to their behavior, companies like Uber will pop up to serve those who can pay for it. I, for one, am fortunate enough that I can pay for it and would continue to use Uber over taxis even if it costs 2x. I cannot overstate how much I hate taxis.

The biggest success of Uber, for me, has been that they raised the bar and showed everyone that this experience can be better.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#343

Post by parineum »

kanbara wrote: post #321
jmyeet wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. the main issues i have with uber are that it's now almost more expensive than taxis, there's almost no regulation, the drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits. just because taxis suck doesn't mean uber should replace them. government…

> drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits.

I hear people say this all the time. None of those people are Uber drivers.

I can't speak to Europe but that's been my experience in California.

This kind of "we know what's good for you" elitism is that turns people off from the left and why I don't want to be associated with the democratic party despite my voting history.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#344

Post by rvense »

chrischen wrote: post #289
mikeryan wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe the driver would show up on time, or maybe they'd see a street hail en route to picking you up and decide to make you wait an extra 40 minutes. That’s not how it worked, or works (see Curb). You didn’t schedule a particular cab you call the cab service and the dispatcher sends a cab to you and makes sure they got there. If they didn’t show up you call dispatch back and they call the guy and find out what th…

You’ve clearly never called a cab pre-Uber, or you worked as a dispatcher. Worse of all not only does the cab company often decide to not show up, if you cancel (such as calling another cab company that does show up or take a bus instead) you get yelled at and cursed to hell for letting them know you are canceling . Everyone in the system is just an average joe, probably being paid less than they deserve. But the sys…

> You’ve clearly never called a cab pre-Uber

There might be some variation with things like geography, here.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#345

Post by spoonjim »

jmharvey wrote: post #261
mikeryan wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service First this is just inherently wrong. You’ve been able to call and schedule a cab, even in the burbs, since before the internet was a thing. Second there’s now services like Curb (in NYC) or Flywheel which allow you to use an Uber/Lyft style…

> First this is just inherently wrong. You’ve been able to call and schedule a cab, even in the burbs, since before the internet was a thing. And maybe the driver would show up on time, or maybe they'd see a street hail en route to picking you up and decide to make you wait an extra 40 minutes. Uber drivers cancel, too, of course, but "automatically fall back to a different driver after a cancellation" is a meaningfu…

ROFLcopter! Yes, you are correct, you've always been able to call and schedule a cab before the Internet was a thing. What you're leaving out is that it was always a roll of the dice whether that cab would ever show up, with a much higher no-show rate than Uber.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#346

Post by visarga »

jjav wrote: post #335
jmharvey wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First this is just inherently wrong. You’ve been able to call and schedule a cab, even in the burbs, since before the internet was a thing. And maybe the driver would show up on time, or maybe they'd see a street hail en route to picking you up and decide to make you wait an extra 40 minutes. Uber drivers cancel, too, of course, but "automatically fall back to a different driver after a cancellation" is a meaningfu…

> Uber drivers cancel, too, of course, Or never show up. Twice with uber (I'm not a frequent user, so this is a high percentage) the driver never showed up. The app didn't let me request someone else until a very long timeout (don't remember how long). Good thing I wasn't going to a flight or other time-sensitive trip on those times, but waiting around in the dark in an industrial park, not so fun. Pre-uber I'd reser…

Recently happened to me twice in a short span. After I was assigned the driver, the car was just sitting there for ten minutes. Then it suddenly started approaching and it arrived in 5 minutes, there was no traffic.

I believe they were waiting for me to cancel and have me take the penalty, but I was purposefully not giving up this time. Or they just wan to pick and choose their orders and have no way to cancel an unwanted trip.

Another time the driver came and passed me and went to a different location without stopping or answering messages. I was just watching the car get further and further away.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#347

Post by faller »

westcort wrote: post #35

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

> 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business

This doesn't seem to be true, given that in some countries you have taxi companies providing services through Uber, as well as their own ride hailing platforms.

> 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab

I'm not sure this belief holds any truth as well. I mean, isn't the biggest cost associated with Yellow Cab the taxi medallion, which represents a +$80k additional charge over the vehicle?

Re: The Uber Bubble

#348

Post by creamyhorror »

xapata wrote: post #311
westcort wrote: post #35

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

In some countries, taxis are so often criminal that tourists are warned to avoid them. In some less extreme places, drivers simply never use the meter and the passengers must negotiate every ride. Uber and its competitors have been wonderful for hailing rides in these places.

I remember areas of Bali where local cabs would threaten and drive away cabs from outside the area, including private-hire ones ordered via app. Their argument was local drivers should be supported, but the cab prices were really high for short rides as a result (because the clientele was foreign tourists, many from Australia and Europe).

Re: The Uber Bubble

#349

Post by mjburgess »

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #268

When traveling in India, I foolishly took a cycle rickshaw. It was gross/shameful. A man far less fortunate than I was sweating, working hard, barely getting paid, and breathing horribly polluted New Delhi air while I just sat there. When Uber started to squeeze its drivers, I again felt just like this. I hated hearing drivers complain about their life problems. I hated doing the math and seeing how little these peop…

I'm not following this logic -- do you think it would've been better not to take the rickshaw?

You do realise that this man is providing for himself, and perhaps others, by this job?

It seems like your issue was being confronted with the "realities of life" which distressed your sensibilities; and your solution appears to be to hide from these. I dont see this as a moral impulse, but a disgust response.

If you wished to do anything, tip.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#350

Post by drbig »

Just want to provide taxi service context from "a lesser (known) place" - Łódź, Poland:

1. You can't hail a cab that's in traffic

It's illegal for them to stop randomly.

2. Cabs have dedicated "TAXI" spots

I _believe_ the city designates them - well marked space along curb. There any taxi company cabs can queue and wait for "off street pickup". Like at LAX, just smaller and spread over the city (not necessarily evenly).

3. Every taxi company prefer you to order the cab earlier

You can do it old-school via a voice call, or via an app, or via an SMS or... I'm not even sure, I speak the language so I just call. You can order a cab for tomorrow, for the middle of the night etc. And they _will not ask_ you about the destination, only about the pickup point - which contrary to point 1 can be literally anywhere a car can stop without blocking traffic (i.e. a road in the middle of nowhere).

4. For an ordered ride the dispatcher do care

It's the major part of their job for you to get your cab at the place and on the time agreed. I find it insulting if the cab isn't _earlier_ than the agreed time. Cab being late more than couple of minutes is very rare.

5. For an ordered ride you do get some cab info

My favorite company sends an SMS with not only the car description and cab number (well visible), but also a link to a very simple but "data only" web-app that shows where the cab is, updating about once a minute. So like Uber, but simpler and way more reliable (ever seen your Uber driver get magically teleported way back than they were a second ago? ...prediction gone wrong).

6. Pay cash, card and others

As per 3 you'll be asked your destination only ever when you're already in the cab, and by the driver - so I have no idea if any prepaid options are available, but then again to me taxi is like a haircut or a restaurant meal - a service where prepayment is just a bad incentive for the provider.

7. It's like a restaurant meal

I had cases where I was going for a train (so tight schedule), but the cab driver got rather unlucky with the choice of route and time was running out... they offered to go lower over the metered number, because hey they are people too, and that's as much as they have power to do. I decline, not their fault (and a decade of experience of building in buffers for long-range travel means "I'm always fine").

I believe most if not all of the above applies across all Polish cities and taxi companies. I have used Uber in Poland only exactly twice, and many times abroad, with most trips in the USA. Compared to my Łódź, Poland taxi experience Uber is mostly "meh" - and it's very unreliable for anything with a schedule.

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