The Uber Bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: The Uber Bubble

#111

Post by presentation » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 10:59 PM UTC

danamit wrote: post #90

All the complains in this thread seem like they can be solved by Uber easily, mainly by allowing drivers to set their price by themselves. Taxies in my country are so bad, it feels like you are asking them for a favor by using their service, not to mention they pick and choose if they wanna take you or no based on how profitable for them it is.

That defeats the selling point of Uber, you don’t just get a ride in one tap knowing how much you’ll end up paying anymore, unless you’re cool paying whatever the driver feels like they should be paid. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the idea though.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#112

Post by imtringued » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:01 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #10

thematrixturtle wrote: post #9

The real magic of Uber is that it allows drivers to convert the depreciation of their car into cash at a time and schedule of their own choosing. For the reasons discussed in the story, this may still technically be a net negative in the long term compared to driving a regular cab fulltime, but a) drivers find it far preferable to/cheaper than alternatives like payday loans, and b) many Uber drivers have multiple job…

I would be curious to see independent citations of these claims.

As someone whose virtual in-game company has grown so much that I lost track how much things cost and how much money I am actually making. I would argue it is very common. This is in a game where there are already turn key spreadsheets that tell you how much profit you are theoretically getting per day. The problem is that your "pipelines" are long and you may end up stock piling stuff for two weeks buying at one price and selling another.

I doubt most Uber drivers are whipping out a spreadsheet and pondering for 3 hours before they commit to the job. That is how much time I spend before I build a new base and lots of those were canceled before they got build.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#113

Post by belter » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:02 PM UTC

yywwbbn wrote: post #89

belter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the argument. The argument is that Uber business model is more cost-effective than Slavery. (And without trying to sound insensitive here)...the "slave owner" still bears the costs of his "slaves".

But it’s still not profitable, unlike slavery which was extremely profitable. So how can it be more effective?

"Slave owners" did not have high AWS bills, Stock Based compensation, Sales and Marketing and so on...

"Uber Technologies Operating Expenses 2017-2021 | UBER"

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technolo....

"Uber Announces Results for Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2021"

https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det...

Re: The Uber Bubble

#114

Post by anyfoo » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:02 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #110

anyfoo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the parent commenter mentioned that they usually get a taxi from the airport at least (because it's right there I guess, there are strict special regulations about how german taxis wait at the airport to make things go smoothly), so... Another other reason to take one is when you're so far outside and at a time of day that public transport is spotty.

In markets like Frankfurt and London, Uber has a tougher time competing. Totally agreed. It still has niches. And most taxi markets aren’t filled with lovely, knowledgeable, ambitious drivers.

Fair, I was only offering the perspective from Germany.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#115

Post by justinpowers » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:03 PM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #79

justinpowers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selection bias…

So non-uber drivers don't want to be uber drivers and uber drivers want to be uber drivers? Or what? There was practically nothing else in common between each driver other than their desire to continue working with Uber as they do now. Where's the bias? 500+ rides (probably significantly more bcs I have two accounts) are large enough sample.

The selection consists solely of current Uber drivers, excluding all drivers who chose to stop and take an alternative job. As well, drivers in the act of driving are less likely to admit that they do not want to be doing what they are currently doing, due to cognitive dissonance.

Additionally, there likely exists a framing bias along with a false dichotomy, if they were asked whether they’d rather Uber or take a “normal job”. There are of course plenty of alternatives that are not “normal jobs” (whatever that is exactly).

Anyways, anecdotally, I’ve had drivers who were not happy with Uber and continued only out of lack of current options or plain inertia.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#116

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:04 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #53

acchow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you VC fund something loss making long enough so that it corners the market somehow / gains some other crushing advantage. This is Uber's model. This is not every VC-funded company's model. Google was a money-loser for quite some time, but each additional search gave positive returns. There's just so much other fixed-cost overhead that you really need to expand the business massively so that you can "make it up…

Google was a money-loser for quite some time No. Google was incorporated in 1998, profitable in 2001, and the IPO was in 2004. Total investment pre-IPO was about $25 million.

Out of all five of the largest tech companies - Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft and Google. Only Amazon ran at a loss for any significant amount of time before IPOing.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#117

Post by 6510 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

Its one of those many apps governments should have created in the 80's

Re: The Uber Bubble

#118

Post by cameronh90 » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

Do people actually claim Uber is a successful business?

In the UK, none of the original companies that built the railroads still exist. Many of the railway companies were never particularly profitable and the railway boom was a stock market bubble. Lots of them were fraudulent or poorly run. Eventually they all either went out of business, or amalgamated and ultimately got nationalised.

Nevertheless, they proved the railway as a viable technology and built infrastructure that still exists and is used today (Ship of Theseus caveat). Were they successful as profit making businesses? Ultimately no. However society benefited greatly in the long run from their existence, even though we've all forgotten their names.

I can't see Uber as a company surviving the next few decades, but without them the taxi experience would likely still be as horrific as it was in the 90s.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#119

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #103

taylorhou wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's crazy is in this day and age, you'd think uber/lyft are available in most markets but last week, I had to go to Baton Rouge (LSU with 50k students is based there) and I was relegated to a beat up, cigarette smelling, local taxi because no uber/lyft's were available at the airport (due to storms and delayed flights).

I flew to Hartfort, CT (BDL, actually in the rather distant suburb of Windsor Locks CT) last year, and my flight was delayed to about 10:30pm; I almost didn't get an Uber because the market simply doesn't for the drivers to stick around that late. There were other delayed flights coming in after mine, closer to midnight; my driver said quite plainly that those folks would have to figure something else out, because al…

>I almost didn't get an Uber because the market simply doesn't for the drivers to stick around that late.

The market does, but it is bad PR for Uber to offer sufficiently high surge pricing to attract drivers. So Uber makes the choice to simply not offer a driver $400 for what would normally be a $40 car ride, even though $400 would get someone on the road to drive you somewhere.

It makes no sense that people complain about surge pricing.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#120

Post by cornel_io » Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

Almost every useful scalable service ends up shifting economic gains from labor to capital. And consumers benefit from it, because as a very rough economic rule of thumb, the more value that flows to labor the less efficient the service is and the higher price consumers pay.

From a customer POV taxis were horrible, full-stop, and Uber/Lyft are fantastic. I can actually get a reliable, safe ride almost anywhere now, and that was impossible before (ever been held up by a gypsy cabbie because yellow cabs won't go to certain parts of NYC? Not fun...).