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The Uber Bubble

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Re: The Uber Bubble

#41

Post by ohyoutravel »

neojebfkekeej wrote: post #7
Supermancho wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery is not a trade you choose to practice. Not sure how this is constructive.

Slavery has redefined itself into newer forms. One such manifestation is in the form of worker exploitation.

I am interested to hear your reasoning on this. To me, thinking through it, I see some potential commonalities but the sine qua non of being owned as property fails. Is the argument that people have to work in general to survive, and it is the fact that they have to work what renders them as a “modern slave?” I hope not because that seems facile.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#42

Post by rubicon33 »

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #34
Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

> Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. This is the entire gig economy/sharing economy in a nutshell. The platform puts most of the financial risk on the labor side (drivers owning the cars if you're driving Uber, owning the house if you're Airbnb'ing it, etc.) and simply taking a cut of each transaction. The platform owns nothing, the workers hav…

Right when millennials are starting to feel some stability and save some money, right THEN is when the financial crisis will hit. Just wait and see.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#43

Post by rzz3 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

Despite all of the negatives, many of which I agree with, the legacy taxi industry really sucked for riders. Riding in a taxi feels dirty to me, to be honest. Old, ugly cars that never seem well maintained, having to actually call someone on a phone and tell them where to pick you up, often not accepting Apple Pay, Android Pay, credit cards. Rude drivers with no rating system to disincentivize it…

It’s sad that Uber seemingly made such bad business decisions and ultimately has not been successful as a business. However, the “disruption” was widely successful. Hell, they even became a verb.

Personally, even as a customer, I strongly prefer Lyft (but I’d never take a Taxi unless I was somehow forced to).

Re: The Uber Bubble

#44

Post by erik_seaberg »

akmarinov wrote: post #36
mupuff1234 wrote: post #23

Why are there so many competitors in the delivery/taxi type services, but in the short term rental industry Airbnb seems to be mostly unchallenged? I would've expected to see a lot of VC money being thrown there as well, but I'm only seeing Airbnb raising their fees and actually making a profit.

Isn’t booking.com up there as well in that field?

I see VRBO (Vacation Rentals by Owner) ads frequently.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#46

Post by sbarre »

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #34
Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

> Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. This is the entire gig economy/sharing economy in a nutshell. The platform puts most of the financial risk on the labor side (drivers owning the cars if you're driving Uber, owning the house if you're Airbnb'ing it, etc.) and simply taking a cut of each transaction. The platform owns nothing, the workers hav…

> The next financial crisis is gonna show us just how fragile this system is, whenever that is.

For now, a lot of the gig economy (but not all of it) is focused on non-essential services (food or other delivery, vacation rentals, private car rentals, etc), so in a time of crisis people can just stop using those services.

It will suck for the workers but even in a non-gig model that same problem would occur, although there would be more safety nets like unions and insurance ...

What worries me is if essential services start getting "gigged out" in a similar manner, that would be problematic..

Easy to say that would never happen, but "private citizens operating unregulated hotels/taxis" seemed impossible/illegal just a decade ago...

Re: The Uber Bubble

#47

Post by barry-cotter »

Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

This completely neglects the enormous gains to consumers of having cabs that (1) will actually show up if booked ahead of time (2) don’t discriminate by race/ethnicity (3) don’t take the long way round (4) always take cards instead of the machine being “broken” (5) will pick up and drop you off anywhere.

Uber and their competitors are and were 100x better at getting drivers to follow the rules taxis were always meant to follow than their regulators ever were.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#48

Post by acchow »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #9

The real magic of Uber is that it allows drivers to convert the depreciation of their car into cash at a time and schedule of their own choosing. For the reasons discussed in the story, this may still technically be a net negative in the long term compared to driving a regular cab fulltime, but a) drivers find it far preferable to/cheaper than alternatives like payday loans, and b) many Uber drivers have multiple job…

You are 100% correct. This is the magic

There are people who want to make a positive return on their time + vehicle depreciation. But they are on the open market competing against people who are in a cash crunch and happy to have a net negative return on the same, as long as it temporarily allows them to convert depreciation into cash.

This is why drivers will always lose in the long term. They are racing against each other to the bottom.

I've also had Uber drivers who don't need the money at all - they just like talking to new people and are bored on a Saturday night. This of course drives the price down further. These are often the ones with a very nice car.

As other sibling comments have mentioned, many Uber drivers have no idea that this is what their gig is doing - converting depreciation into cash flow in a net-negative way. Maybe Uber's marketing style to drivers needs to be amended by law?

Re: The Uber Bubble

#49

Post by Znafon »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #23

Why are there so many competitors in the delivery/taxi type services, but in the short term rental industry Airbnb seems to be mostly unchallenged? I would've expected to see a lot of VC money being thrown there as well, but I'm only seeing Airbnb raising their fees and actually making a profit.

Because when you book a car or ask for food to be delivered of it does not happen you just cancel the transaction and book another one, perhaps on another app. There is not much risk associated to this transaction and this favour the apparition of « competitors » doing the exact same thing.

When you are renting a flat in another town, or country, sometimes weeks or months in advance, the risk is much higher. If upon arrival you discover you have been scammed it has a much higher impact than a delayed meal. This favour a single actor that you can trust (however bad is Airbnb, image what it would like if you had to trust a local actor in a country that you have never been, acting without respecting the regulations…).

This makes the dynamics of those two types of marketplace completely different.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#50

Post by dylkil »

rzz3 wrote: post #43
Barrin92 wrote: post #22

The piece is exactly right. Uber is effectively an instrument to shift economic gains from labour to capital by atomizing the workforce. From a macroeconomic perspective this is terrible because turning taxi firms into countless of one man businesses provides no efficiency gains, it's basically reverse economic development. There is a version of Uber that actually makes sense. As a lean SaaS company that sells its so…

Despite all of the negatives, many of which I agree with, the legacy taxi industry really sucked for riders. Riding in a taxi feels dirty to me, to be honest. Old, ugly cars that never seem well maintained, having to actually call someone on a phone and tell them where to pick you up, often not accepting Apple Pay, Android Pay, credit cards. Rude drivers with no rating system to disincentivize it… It’s sad that Uber…

> Old, ugly cars that never seem well maintained

maybe in US or UK but in europe taxis are kept to a high standard, albeit way more expensive

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