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Steve's Google Platform rant

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Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#321
post #276

Amazon engineer here, just a couple of observations after a few years at the company. As many people said, there's a wide variability in experience at Amazon depending on the team. And I would say even more, depending on where you sit in the graph. The bottlenecks at the center have more clients, higher TPS, more stringent latency requirements. And their support burden is worse and the engineer's life is worse. It's…

Very informative and well-written post, thank you. Nice evolution of the MLK quote.

What I'm wondering next is, What is the practical take-away for startups and relatively small efforts that are looking to scale? Regardless of tools-stack, what should a forward-thinking developer do? Is the answer to design around a RESTful API specification right from the beginning, then building layers of server-side and client-side code exclusively using that API? etc. etc.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the above might be true, I know that Amazon excels at customer service whereas google's is essentially non-existent. So from the customer perspective, I would choose Amazon over google any day.

do you give google money? if not, you're not a customer and have probably never experienced their customer service or a "customer perspective".

Unless you're constantly blocking ads, you're a google customer and you give them money. Don't be fooled by an apparently "free" service :)

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#323
post #184
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR is not there for you. HR is there for the company. Never forget that.

The HR people in my company help me all the time. It's a shame that so many workplaces are so adversarial.

When I worked in retail my name and zip code was incorrect in the company records. When I asked who I should contact to fix this, my store manager told me I'd need to contact HR but to never ever do that. I'll always wonder what would've happened if I had contacted them.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you give google money? if not, you're not a customer and have probably never experienced their customer service or a "customer perspective".

Unless you're constantly blocking ads, you're a google customer and you give them money. Don't be fooled by an apparently "free" service :)

Viewing ads makes you the product not the customer.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#325

It now 404's so I've posted it here: Stevey's Google Platforms Rant I was at Amazon for about six and a half years, and now I've been at Google for that long. One thing that struck me immediately about the two companies -- an impression that has been reinforced almost daily -- is that Amazon does everything wrong, and Google does everything right. Sure, it's a sweeping generalization, but a surprisingly accurate one.…

This is what I am taking home:

1) There IS no perfect product for everyone.

2) Making something a platform has some chance of addressing the above.

Me trying to make sense of it, but meanwhile let me say it aloud again. There IS no perfect product for everyone. Thanks, Stevey.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#326
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably really hard to run a company with tens of thousands of employees and achieve market success while also having everyone inside like and respect you. From a systems standpoint, it's hard to argue with Amazon's recent successes (AWS, Kindle Fire). If they aren't an A company in tech then no one is. This is not to dispute your observations in any way, shape, or form. Just that it's a huge T-Rex from the out…

How is the kindle fire a success? It just launched...

Perhaps the number of pre-orders was a success, along with their claimed features at a low price point?

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#327
post #7

I worked at Amazon from before Steve left to sometime later. I remember being excited when Larry Tessler was hired, and dismayed at the way he was treated. Everything Steve says about Amazon is true, only, it was much worse. Amazon was, by far, the worst employment experience I've ever had. I'm not saying that lightly, I worked for a dozen startups, a couple of which crashed hard in the most gut wrenchingly painful w…

As an ex-Amazonian, I have to second your opinion. It was by far the worst employment experience I had at a tech company. In my 10 year tenure, I fortunately didn't come across any company as bad as Amazon, when it comes to how it treats its employees. The management doesn't have any value for the lives of their developers, and use them as tissues. Use and throw seems to their policy. If you can take their abuse, and…

Advice taken. I have an offer from them right now, as well as an offer from elsewhere -- after seeing this whole thread, I think I'll go for the elsewhere. Thanks for the advice!

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#328
post #127
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon internal propagand emphasizes that Amazon is a startup. "It's day one!" is a phrase I heard way too many times. They have "door desks" -- which actually cost them more than regular off the shelf furniture would-- but they pretend like they're being frugal to perpetuate the perception that they're a startup. (When I found out about the door desks costs, I was sworn to secrecy, it is very important for morale.)…

I have to agree with your last point. IBM is a "well run" company; they take very good care of their shareholders. Some of the things they have to do in order to take care of shareholders is one of the reasons why I no longer work there. But I still hold on to my IBM stock....

Can you elaborate regarding "taking care of shareholders" and why those things contributed to you not wanting to work there?

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.

The legal minimum in the UK is now 5.6 weeks; That's still amongst the lowest in Europe. I simply cannot comprehend how even the best paid workers in America expect less holiday than the lowest-paid European labourers.

The reason is because the market doesn't demand vacation time. We get paid more and have less taxes, though.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#330
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still periodically try out some of the regression tests that I'd done back when I worked there... there are bugs that have been in the site for about 4 years now. I think when my team was reduced by %90 from people leaving, they just disbanded it and nobodies doing that work now. Certainly the major initiatives haven't moved forward. I don't think Bezos has a technical background... I thought he was a hedge fund gu…

I don't think Bezos has a technical background... I thought he was a hedge fund guy before moving out to Seattle. So what can you say about this post posted here 3 years ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=465882 . The blog post was down, archive.org didn't help also :). But as far as I remember the blogger was praising about bezos leadership skill. Also comments on HN supported that. I am reading HN for about 3…

There is a PR war, and it's been waged by Amazon since the mid 1990s when they went public. They had terrible numbers, and so they reframed themselves as a "tech startup" to get in the dot com boom.... and it worked.

There has been, and continues to be, massive propaganda efforts from Amazon to try and pitch them to people, and to position Bezos as a visionary in the style of Steve Jobs. In fact, I saw an article the other day comparing the two.

It's nonsense. Bezos, in any other context, would not be a bad person. He's got good management skills, and he has a desire for keeping the quality bar high. But the problem is, he doesn't give a damn about other people.

He's got a very utilitarian viewpoint of other people. Every interaction with them, from his perspective, seems to be about how he can best profit from them. He sees people as resources to be exploited.

I'm a pure capitalist, I don't have a problem with trade, but he's more like a predator.

At least, this is what my interactions with him, and the culture he created at Amazon tell me.

You can sustain such an illusion only for so long, however. In seattle, as far back as at least 1998, everyone know that Amazon was a terrible place to work and an even worse place to do business with (as a supplier, etc.)

I knew that, but I didn't want to believe it, when I took the job.

I do accept responsibility for the stupidity that I displayed in doing that, and in sticking around after I should have left as others have pointed out. I could have avoided this, and should have, by simply holding myself in higher esteem... and never taken that job.

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