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Neovim 0.7 Released

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Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#191

Post by Brian_K_White »

deergomoo wrote: post #44
Brian_K_White wrote: post #9

neovim should not be named anything-vim for the same reason a Tesla is not a "neomaclaran".

vim should not be named vi-anything, for the same reason that a car is not a horse-improved :)

vim does not break vi concepts the way neovim breaks both vi and vim concepts.

It's not 'vi with lua support' it's a totally different core paradigm like the difference between vscode and vim.

Someone recently wrote a whole screed about this and itemized a bunch of points about why exactly it's backwards to integrate a terminal vs working within any terminal, baking in more limited answers for things that are already answered more flexibly by plugins and external processes, etc. They got a little bit screedy and there were a few nits to pick, but the basic points were all both true anc valid.

It was posted to HN within the last couple days but I can't find it now. If I find it I'll add the link here.

All of which is not to say that neovim is necessarily a bad thing, it's just that it's not a newer or better vim, and the starting point being a fork of vim doesn't mean a thing.

The first Tesla was a fork of a Lotus.

Both Tesla and Lotus are fine cars, but a Tesla is not a newer better Lotus.

If you like the design goals of Lotus, then a Tesla is utter garbage.

And the inverse is exactly the same true. If you like the design goals of a Tesla then a Lotus is utter garbage.

If I were either Lotus or a Lotus user, and even if cars were open source projects without legally enforcable trademarks on their names, I would be highly highly annoyed when someone comes along and takes the current Lotus and replaces the engine and transmission with electric motors and a PC, and slaps a huge ipad on the dash, and then names it "NeoLotus", and then continues to call it NeoLotus even after the original Lotus base isn't even in there any more and it's a totally different thing with a totally different set of priorities, goals, philosophies, and audience.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#192

Post by Brian_K_White »

capableweb wrote: post #39
Brian_K_White wrote: post #9

neovim should not be named anything-vim for the same reason a Tesla is not a "neomaclaran".

Not sure how that's relevant here. Is Tesla (the cars) a fork of McLaren with changes after doing the fork? Neovim is literally a vim fork, with .lua supported everywhere .vim is used and many other additions/changes/removals.

Correct. Tesla is a fork of a Lotus not a Maclaran.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#193

Post by Brian_K_White »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #38
Brian_K_White wrote: post #9

neovim should not be named anything-vim for the same reason a Tesla is not a "neomaclaran".

It is literally a fork of the vim codebase, and the name clearly indicates that it has diverged. If Tesla had started with a complete copy of McLaren designs, then (aside commercial/trademark issues) it'd be 100% reasonable to call it a "Neo McLaren". (Obviously that wouldn't happen because businesses run differently from FOSS, but the principle is sound.)

And Tesla is literally a fork of a Lotus.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#194

Post by totetsu »

dantondwa wrote: post #66
totetsu wrote: post #64

Does any one have any advice for running neo vim on a centos host without admin to install it. (Short of hunting down all the source packages for dependencies and compiling)

You can download the appimage from the website or you can install it using flatpak. Then set up an alias for "neovim" pointing either to the appimage or to the flatpak command.

I'll check if they installed flatpak ;)

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#196

Post by scottlamb »

tekknolagi wrote: post #175
scottlamb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a separate nvim instance within the terminal of the outer nvim instance. If I'm understanding this feature correctly, the idea is that instead of that, you make the outer nvim instance do stuff. Then pasting back and forth between buffers works better, etc. It wasn't clear to me from this short blurb though if that includes blocking for the buffer to be handled and then signalling success or failure to the cal…

It would be nice if it overrode EDITOR with some command that opened a new pane in your existing Nvim session. That seems doable. Alternatively, Tim Pope's fugitive is pretty great and you can write :Git commit and it does just that.

It could even overlay the terminal pane for the duration of the command with the buffer pane. So it'd look a lot like opening the second editor instance, except incorporated with the first editor's buffer list, registers, etc.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#197

Post by fi_do12 »

ilovecaching wrote: post #3

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

Question to those who are using both NeoVim and an IDE like VSCode/Jetbrains:

Suppose you're using VSCode/Jetbrains with proper keyboard shortcuts (stuff like expanding selection, search/highlight all matches, ...) - basically never using the mouse. Is navigating / editing with NeoVim really that much faster?

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#198

Post by mekster »

ilovecaching wrote: post #3

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

If vim or neovim can work as featureful as JetBrains, I'll switch any day.

Let me know how to highlight SQL in strings and make tables linked to remote database over SSH and autocomplete table names and column names as I type. And make sure that its grammar is checked against specific RDBMS's available syntax.

And I also want code formatting that's not entirely opinionated, so I can decide what gets wrapped and what gets indented and let it format an entire folder with a shortcut.

And if I'm setting the project to use PHP 8.0, make sure to highlight features I've mistakingly used from 8.1, so that I don't get runtime errors.

And if I'm editing files over SSH, make sure that if the remote file is changed, it warns me before I upload a local version, so I don't accidentally overwrite any remote changes and give me the option to merge.

And for sake of being right, in PHP if I have a function paremeter set as a string, highlight "is_string" check on the parameter as redundant, so my code doesn't look dumb.

I probably have others and even more that I'm not even aware of from its feature lists that can be useful over what vim/nvim can offer after taking some months configuring it to my liking.

I suppose you're comfortable missing out on those?

vim to me is a server config editor.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#199

Post by mekster »

elpatoisthebest wrote: post #74
DavidWoof wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could ask the opposite: why do people choose terminal vim when you can easily add nvim integration to editors like VSCode and get 98-100% of what vim gives you along with much easier configuration of all those extras you mention like autocomplete, hover reference, refactor, etc.? That's a bit of an overstatement, because I really do love vim/nvim and nvim integration isn't that good, but the fact is that adding a f…

The 100% full reason for me was that I had a job where I needed to SSH into our prod server about once per month and tweak some files. I was so terrified every time I had to do it because I was afraid of vim and/or nano in those situations. So I decided to get competent so I trusted myself not to make huge mistakes. After about a week of using vim it clicked and I knew I couldn't go back to Sublime Text. As for VS Co…

Initialize git and commit on the dir before touching them.

Re: Neovim 0.7 Released

#200

Post by mekster »

paskozdilar wrote: post #10
ilovecaching wrote: post #3

I will never understand why people choose VSCode/Jetbrains over a terminal based editor. I can edit the kernel with clangd and get hover reference, autocomplete, go to def, ref, dec, smart refactor, and that's on top of being able to easily jump and fix lint/bugs using Vim's already great support for parsing compiler errors. With term added (which is a core Vim feature) it also has excellent support for gdb debugging…

Vim/Neovim/Emacs/etc. require a certain "commitment" to them - you have to learn keybindings, for example. Moreover, if you want any fancy IDE features you're addicted to, like hints, autocomplete, static analysis, refactoring, etc. you have to configure it yourself, which still isn't quite straightforward as selecting a plugin in VSCode (perhaps this is a good feature idea?). Most people just don't think it's worth…

> you have to learn keybindings,

Are people seriously training their muscle memory to the default vim keybinding that is so cryptic I don't know what to say.

Since the early days of learning vim, I've changed the "go to end of line" bound as "-" which is next to "0" for "go to start of line" which is way more logically placed than some "^" that even needs shift pressed.

If anyone thinks "because default works on any machine", you need to think how you're wasting your brain cycle on unnecessary complexity for no reason.

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