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DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

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Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#291

Post by throwaway82652 »

rglullis wrote: post #279
throwaway82652 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes no sense. Disney is not stopping you from making your own home movies. You can even put them on YouTube or any of the other alternatives. There's actually lots of good criticisms of Disney, but you didn't mention any of them.

It's not about my own movies that don't get made. It's about all the other movies that don't get to be financed because of the 19th re-hash of Star Wars (or Marvel movie, or live-action remake of Lion King/Aladdin/Pocahontas/Dumbo/Bambi) that is going to be released and it's "guaranteed" to make another billion dollars in the box office. It's about having two small kids who get bombarded with products from their fran…

Film funding is not a zero sum game. There are lots of other places to secure funding. I've seen about 20 new indie films already this year.

The rest of your comment is unrelated and somewhat unhinged, and appears to be going off into a general complaint about advertising, it has nothing to do with copyright.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#292

Post by rglullis »

throwaway82652 wrote: post #263
pessimizer wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to play ball with them or they will simply not be able to produce those things anymore. They should stop, and we can freely share what's left. Their bullshit crowds out everything else anyway.

What is "everything else" in this context? You're saying that every writer should stop writing books, every artist should stop making art, every musician should stop making music... That is everything as far as our information society goes, there won't be any "everything else" after that.

Do you need me to go around looking for all the declarations from different big name musicians saying how they only really make money on touring, not on the record selling?

How many examples of companies and people working on free software do you need? Or authors that started out writing as a side-gig?

It's simply not true that copyright reform would lead to death of creative works. Most likely the opposite: we would certainly see a reduction in the quantity of works, but those remaining would be working out of pure interest, which would lead me to believe that the average quality would be substantially better.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#293

Post by rglullis »

throwaway82652 wrote: post #288
rglullis wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be objecting anyone that gets paid to produce cultural pollution. Are you getting paid to produce cultural pollution?

Please discontinue this style of rhetoric, it's not what this site is for.

The "people will starve without copyright" rhetoric is also quite off-putting.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#295

Post by ikt »

swethmandava wrote: post #194

https://you.com - no ads, great privacy and let's YOU control your sources

You have made 6 comments advertising you.com in a day?

But for some reason you didn't bother to use your own search engine:

https://you.com/search?q=youtube-dl&fromSearchBar=true

https://yt-dl.org/ is the homepage, and you.com has the same results as https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=youtube-dl&addon=firefox&add... and https://duckduckgo.com/?q=youtube-dl&t=h_&ia=web

It doesn't list the homepage...

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#296

Post by rglullis »

throwaway82652 wrote: post #291
rglullis wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about my own movies that don't get made. It's about all the other movies that don't get to be financed because of the 19th re-hash of Star Wars (or Marvel movie, or live-action remake of Lion King/Aladdin/Pocahontas/Dumbo/Bambi) that is going to be released and it's "guaranteed" to make another billion dollars in the box office. It's about having two small kids who get bombarded with products from their fran…

Film funding is not a zero sum game. There are lots of other places to secure funding. I've seen about 20 new indie films already this year. The rest of your comment is unrelated and somewhat unhinged, and appears to be going off into a general complaint about advertising, it has nothing to do with copyright.

> I've seen about 20 new indie films already this year.

Good for you! Now go ask the other 99% of the population what they watched this year?

> The rest of your comment (...) has nothing to do with copyright.

It has to do with concentration of power, of which copyright (and any kind of "intellectual property") is one of the favorite instruments from big corporations.

I also used to fall for this "people are free to choose" techno-libertarian bullshit. The problem is that it is not in the interest of all the corporations for you to choose responsibly. They make the game so complex and so energy consuming that eventually people break in one way or another.

"Copyright enforcement" only benefits the big players and the corporate world.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#297

Post by throwaway82652 »

rglullis wrote: post #292
throwaway82652 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "everything else" in this context? You're saying that every writer should stop writing books, every artist should stop making art, every musician should stop making music... That is everything as far as our information society goes, there won't be any "everything else" after that.

Do you need me to go around looking for all the declarations from different big name musicians saying how they only really make money on touring, not on the record selling? How many examples of companies and people working on free software do you need? Or authors that started out writing as a side-gig? It's simply not true that copyright reform would lead to death of creative works. Most likely the opposite: we would…

I'm a musician and I write software, you don't need to preach to me about this. Record sales are indeed dead but there is no chance they'll come back at all without copyright or something like it. Also that doesn't invalidate copyright anyway. Copyright is also an important part of performance, for example the laws about what happens and what royalties you get if somebody else covers your song and profits from it.

Free and open source software is completely dependent on copyright to work, so that's a terrible example.

You can advocate for copyright reform all you want but you misunderstand who you have to please when you do that. It's all those lobbying groups. There's no other groups who would be invested in reforming copyright law. The "quality" you're advocating for here is completely subjective and not up to you or me to decide, even moreso when you try to dismiss all these things that millions of people actually like as "cultural garbage".

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#298

Post by ppseafield »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #268
kube-system wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some people are under the impression that it’s possible to build a useful search engine that is completely algorithmic and unbiased. It’s just not possible, though. Any algorithm for which there is incentive to game, people will game. And legitimate sources often have no incentive to game the algorithms. There’s no one algorithm that will do everything perfectly. Eventually you’ll have some phishing scam, lif…

I think it all comes down to the type of curation being done and if the choices are made out of objectivity of subjectivity. Like prioritizing a legitimate website over a scam website isn't punishing the scam website because of a controversial opinion or the search engine operator didn't like the content, it's because the website is objectively a scam, it's easy to objectively identify it as such, and everyone agrees…

> it's easy to objectively identify it as such [scams], and everyone agrees it's one.

Is it actually easy to identify all scam content? Then why is it possible to find scams in search results?

> When it comes to Ukraine vs. Russia and propaganda, it is entirely impossible to have objectivity.

So should they treat every news outlet as equally ranked? Because I'm struggling to think of any news reporting that could be said to be free of bias or could be said to be completely objective.

> ...to classify all Russian outlets as spreading misinformation and all Ukrainian outlets as objective truth

Is that what they did? Because what I read was that they would "down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation." So you have to dig a few pages deeper to get to 'Russian disinformation', and I don't see any anything indicating that 'Russian disinformation' means everything published by a Russian News outlet (re: the invasion).

I don't think something being a top search results implies that it is an objective truth either, especially with ongoing news reports.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#299

Post by throwaway82652 »

rglullis wrote: post #293
throwaway82652 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please discontinue this style of rhetoric, it's not what this site is for.

The "people will starve without copyright" rhetoric is also quite off-putting.

That's not a rhetoric and it's also not even close to what I said or what I actually think. Please don't make things up, it's doing a disservice to yourself.

Re: DuckDuckGo Removes Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results

#300

Post by mardifoufs »

chimeracoder wrote: post #202
mdaniel wrote: post #2

As for the YouTube-DL part specifically, I'm pretty sure that's a side-effect of them being dependent upon Bing for the actual index: https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Ayoutube-dl.org Also, _come on_; if someone gives up after one search term, which also includes advanced site-restricting syntax, there's no way they'd be able to operate youtube-dl anyway: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=youtube-dl&ia=web

DuckDuckGo is not solely dependent on Bing. They use Bing as one sourc of the, but they've run their own crawlers since at least 2012.

Not for actual search IIRC. Last time I checked, they only used their own index and crawlers for the "smart search" and instant answers. Almost all of their search results are still sourced from Bing.

That's pretty easy to check for yourself, usually whenever something does not show up on Bing it won't on DDG either. A good example of that was when the "tank man" picture disappeared from Bing and the exact same thing happened on DDG.

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