Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics • Hacker News Board

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#151

Post by 0x12 » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:27 PM UTC

inconditus wrote: post #126

sitkack wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wouldn't be surprised. There is much we don't know. There are many processes of ongoing genetic transfer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer Next time ask for clarification.

I'm well aware of horizontal gene transfer, but thanks for linking it anyways for the people who don't know. Edit: My response was lacking, apologies. AFAIK, there's never been a horizontal gene transfer from a prokaryote/eukaryote/any other kingdom to a mammal or animal. The last time may be when we got mitocondria.

> AFAIK, there's never been a horizontal gene transfer from a prokaryote/eukaryote/any other kingdom to a mammal or animal.

contradicts

> The last time may be when we got mitocondria.

Also, we seem to have quite a bit of bacterial and virus DNA that somehow got incorporated.

Oh, and it's mitochondria.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#152

Post by tptacek » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:27 PM UTC

seven_stones wrote: post #147

tptacek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair: farmers weren't simply getting sued for having Roundup-ready crops; they were finding their fields populated with Roundup-ready plants, and then using Roundup on the field . There was an element of getting-something-for-nothing on the farmer's side, too.

> and then using Roundup on the field. There was an element of getting-something-for-nothing Using RoundUp means more herbicide sales for Monsanto.

The herbicide isn't what's interesting or valuable.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#153

Post by david_p » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:28 PM UTC

cickpass_broken wrote: post #91

pg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an unfortunate sign for HN when the top comment on a thread is such a content-free rant. If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet. There are frequently inane comm…

Such irony. Your comment seems much in the same style. Tho oldstrangers vague logic was "by association" I don't think you should assume "if x sells to Monsanto." You can be much more specific in this case, as Cloudant clearly states, "We’ve been working with them for a few weeks now ..." Has Apple, Chevy, Clorox been "working with" Monsanto, or are their products just freely available for purchase? I find it alarmin…

Thank you. I totally agree.

I rarely comment on HN but actually logged in just for this.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#154

Post by seven_stones » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:29 PM UTC

temphn wrote: post #14

achompas wrote: post #3

Congratulations to Cloudant for signing a big deal. Why work with a company as...ethically ambiguous as Monsanto? I would love to hear how your team decided to accept this deal, and I hope more than dollar signs crossed your minds. Personally, I would start a startup (if I ever have the guts) for freedom. How could dealing with Monsanto differ from wearing golden handcuffs?

Monsanto has received terribly negative press, this is true. Part of that negative press is due to public dislike of GMO foods in Europe. Part of that is due to their DRM-like technology that stops farmers from replanting seeds after one generation. If you invented a new kind of seed which was significantly more productive but cost billions in R&D to develop, what business model would you use instead? Put in other wo…

> If you invented a new kind of seed which was significantly more productive but cost billions in R&D to develop, what business model would you use instead?

If the new crop is more expensive because of IP regulations, it is NOT an improvement.

There's just no way to reconcile feeding the poor with making massive profits on patents.

It's also misleading to focus on the crop itself; soil management is a far bigger issue. If your crop produces more, it means it depletes the soil more. Topsoil depletion is a huge issue wherever there is intensive modern farming.

The goal with patents is to control the food supply, not increase it.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#155

Post by seven_stones » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:33 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #152

seven_stones wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then using Roundup on the field. There was an element of getting-something-for-nothing Using RoundUp means more herbicide sales for Monsanto.

The herbicide isn't what's interesting or valuable.

> The herbicide isn't what's interesting or valuable.

Headpalm.

You DO realize that the point of the gene is to SELL ROUNDUP, right? Not using RoundUp on "RoundUp Ready!" crops kind of defeats the entire purpose.

"Sales for Roundup and other glyphosate-based herbicides peaked at about $4 billion in 2008 when the product line generated record gross profit of nearly $2 billion.

Roundup-branded glyphosate, commercialized by Monsanto in 1976, is one of the few blockbuster molecules developed by industry since the early 1970s. Methyl-tert butyl ether (MTBE), invented by Arco Chemical in the 1960s and commercialized in 1979, is the only other molecule developed by industry since the 1970s to generate sales of more than $1 billion/year."

http://www.chemweek.com/chem_ideas/Rob-Westervelt/Blog-Monsa...

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#156

Post by tptacek » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #123

andylei wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference is that right now, you or anyone else in the thread can convincingly list a bunch of bad things they have done. so far, there is not a single convincing (and barely any substantive) comments about the bad things monsanto has done. if you disagree, please, let's discuss why monsanto is, as many here claim, "evil"

I don't have time to get into that discussion, but if you google "the most evil company in the world" you'll see they're fighting it out with De Beers and one or two others for the top spot. There's also plenty on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto They're basically 80s/90s Microsoft at its worst, but in agriculture of both the developed and developing world (the latter being particularly heinous).

You don't think you're maybe proving the wrong point when, after being asked to provide evidence for the argument that Monsanto is evil, you respond "just Google for most evil company in the world"?

If you really want to pursue that point, maybe you want to start by reconciling it with the fact that by that scale, Monsanto is competing with Activision, Ford Motor, and Coca Cola (all of which appear alongside it on the top half of the first Google SERP for "most evil company in the world").

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#157

Post by WiseWeasel » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:38 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #127

irrumator wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, I don't think I've ever seen so many 'fucks' and similar words used on an HN thread before. For some reason all these new posters are tying every company which they have a grudge against with Monsanto, and by association, with Cloudant. Amusing to read all the pent up angered comments, with any dissenting ones heavily downvoted. Did /r/politics arrive to stay? What happened here? Cloudant is providing an amaz…

I've been very curious about the persistence of anti-capitalists attitudes on Hacker News. For me, one of the things that changed me from a liberal into a libertarian was starting businesses. Getting out there, trying to grow, dealing with government, and recognizing that I needed to learn finance, etc, caused me to get experience with how the business world works, and to also learn economics, and that was pretty muc…

I don't see how decrying a partnership with Monsanto equates with anti-capitalism. Monsanto is seen by many as an enterprise with particularly questionable business practices, but more revelatory than that, one with deep ties to our political system, from which they might be said to derive great benefit from our government's support through subsidies, research grants, political pressure on other countries, abuse of the justice system in going after often innocent farmers, and the list goes on. If anything, it is Monsanto which is seen as anti-capitalist, for their reliance on government power in order to succeed in the marketplace, rather than the inherent merits of their products.

Beyond that, the fact that their genetic modifications to our basic food staples are not contained, that they are allowed to contaminate our seed stocks as a whole, with often poorly understood long-term consequences, touches a nerve for a large portion of the population, since we are talking about a consequential and irreversible effect on the basic food upon which we all rely to stay alive and healthy. It is not hard for me to see why this would be controversial.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#158

Post by thomasgerbe » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:39 PM UTC

redthrowaway wrote: post #118

biznickman wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the comment is content-free but honestly what did the company expect when they're boasting about their partnership with one of the world's most hated companies? I'm not exactly alarmed to see this comment at the top because it's ridiculous that the company was dumb enough to issue this press release. We all need to pay our bills but to boast about working with a hated company is just a stupid PR move. Ap…

> they're not only admitting to power one of the most hated aspects of the company (genetic manipulation of seeds), but they're actually touting it as a win for the company. It is a win for Cloudant. A huge win. They're a data company, not a biological warfare company. Their product will be used in an incredibly data-intensive application to do some really cool analysis. That's awesome for a data startup, and somethi…

I personally wouldn't partner with Lockheed Martin if my tech was going to be used for weaponry. We've refused lucrative contracts with certain companies because we don't respect their product or their past behavior. It completely depends on the relative weight of what you find important.

Partnership deals happen in the background without anyone knowing about it unless you are in the scene. Fact is that they could've done this deal without such an announcement and people/investors in the know within SV would've heard about it.

The fact is that Monsanto has a long history of harmful activities in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Environmental_and_heal...) and the world (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-world-according-to-monsan...) that it is a red flag. Sure, Cloudant isn't a bio warfare company, but the fact is that they are proud to be associated with Monsanto.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#159

Post by tptacek » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:41 PM UTC

seven_stones wrote: post #155

tptacek wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The herbicide isn't what's interesting or valuable.

> The herbicide isn't what's interesting or valuable. Headpalm. You DO realize that the point of the gene is to SELL ROUNDUP, right? Not using RoundUp on "RoundUp Ready!" crops kind of defeats the entire purpose . " Sales for Roundup and other glyphosate-based herbicides peaked at about $4 billion in 2008 when the product line generated record gross profit of nearly $2 billion. Roundup-branded glyphosate, commerciali…

The licensing fees we're talking about farmers getting sued over are for the Roundup-ready crops, not the herbicide. The point of the Roundup-ready system is that it allows you to plant crops that aren't killed by Roundup. As someone else noted, you can buy Roundup itself at Wal-mart.

I think even a cursory read of the thread would have indicated to a good-faith commenter that I know the basics of the difference between Roundup and the Roundup-ready GMO product.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#160

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 9:45 PM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #122

ebaysucks wrote: post #4

Monsanto is one of those rare companies that is so fucked up that it is hated by both socialists and libertarians.

I know socialists hate it, because they hate capitalism. I don't think libertarians hate it, because they don't hate capitalism. However, as libertarianism has become popular, more and more there are socialists (leftists, "democrats" and "liberals") who are deciding they are "libertarians" without understanding what libertarianism is. Libertairans -- and this is what defines the movement-- are people who agree with t…

[deleted]