AWS is on my list of places I would never apply or work at. This post just reinforces my opinion on that.
Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#92Move to California - then this will be unenforceable :)
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#93If you have to ask you can’t negotiate it. And if you try to you’ll be labeled as and rejected.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#94Amazon are struggling for engineers lately. There's a good chance if you just don't sign it they won't bat an eyelid.
I did this once. Could never tell if HR was inept and didn't see it or if they just didn't care. Anyways that was a long time ago and no regrets from me.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#95The only time I would ever sign a noncompete like that is if it came with 18 months of severance pay. That's ludicrous.
That sums up non competes in Europe. Usually companies are required to pay 25%-75% of a former employee's salary in order to make a non compete clause enforceable.
How does 25% of your salary "sum up" 18 months pay for 18 months non-compete?
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#96If it helps: Amazon, Google etc are using these non-compete agreements almost exclusively against the executives who jump ship. Here's are some cases of AWS→ Google Cloud:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/aws-case-against-worker-who-...
https://www.brodyandassociates.com/blog/even-amazon-trouble-...
I personally as an individual contributor (IC) who's not a distinguished engineer would not worry much about Amazon chasing me down to my next job. Not a legal advice obviously.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#97Generally, are non-competes even enforceable? Especially in industries (like cloud providers) where there is a very small number of players.
In WA, and many other states, and many countries outside of the US, yes it is enforceable.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s the same rule as California… you can have a non-compete, but that time has to be paid for separately than your normal wages.
This is probably one of the biggest reasons I'm unlikely to leave the state until other parts of the US make similar determinations. It boggles me that we allow employers to have so much control over an employees life after they have left said organization .
We almost had the same in Washington state until the big tech companies lobbied (i.e. bribed) corrupt politicians for the law to only apply to those earning under $100k.
https://lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/workplace-policies/Non-Com...
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#99What's your offer monetarily?
I've read the following things:
- Amazon caps salary, and uses stock options for comp
- vesting is 3-5 years, and Amazon loves forcing people out before you vest, either by natural attrition from their toxic HR practices/stack ranking/ridiculous workloads, or by just forcing you out
On top of that, they will then noncompete you after you leave?
AVOID.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does that include non-competes signed before you moved? Could your plan be to quit and move to CA?
The law applies to where you are, not where you were, so IANAL but yes, this would work. However, if you moved purely for this purpose, it might be interpreted as fraud. Also, Amazon may sue you in their home venue (Washington, or perhaps Delaware if they are incorporated there). If someone has access to Lexis Nexis it'd be interesting to see how many such cases Amazon has brought, and what happened.
I think it's based on where you are when you sign the agreement, not where you are when you leave. When you say the law applies to where you are, this is all in the action you're taking. The promise not to compete is the action in this case.
I am also NAL, but I don't think moving to CA gets you out of non-competes and I've seen evidence of this (one well covered story involved an Amazon exec going to a Bay Area company and getting sued).