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Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#51

Post by otterley »

randyrand wrote: post #45
otterley wrote: post #6

If you’re asking us here in HN, then it’s very unlikely that you have the sort of negotiating power required to get any sizable company to approve a customized set of legal documents relating to your hire. Changes to the standard set of hiring paperwork often require multiple managers and lawyers to sign off on it. For most positions and candidates, the effort isn’t considered worth it. You can certainly ask, but don…

I was able to add an addendum to my rental agreement created by a fairly sizeable property manager. Addendums are much easier for them to agree to.

First, a lease is not an employment agreement. Different situation.

Second, did the addendum directly contradict or void language in the standard form lease crafted by corporate legal? If not, there's probably more room for negotiation there.

Even in standard employee agreements, there's often an "invention disclosure form" that sort of operates as a built-in addendum for the new hire to fill out. This helps prevent the employer from claiming ownership over things the employee worked on prior to hire.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#52

Post by rsstack »

bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #48
londons_explore wrote: post #10

Amazon are struggling for engineers lately. There's a good chance if you just don't sign it they won't bat an eyelid.

I've been getting a few emails from Amazon recruiters weekly to both my personal and work emails.

I complained to jeff@ about the spam from recruiters, after emailing them several times to stop contacting me - and even calling the recruiters on the phone once asking them to stop.

The final reply in my email thread with them: "I will take a look at these messages and will inform our recruiting team of your concern if these messages are found to be legitimate. Thank you again for sharing your concerns. I wish you well in your future endeavors!"

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#53

Post by alecco »

Tell them this is significant to you and ask for, say, +30% of total comp to sign the contract in the current wording. This they will understand. If you say no or if you give reasons they will just try to make you change your mind and give you excuses. Don't waste your time.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#54

Post by icedchai »

MeNotLawyer wrote: post #21
forty wrote: post #15

You should better consult a lawyer than a bunch of random people if this is important for you. Or better yet: not work for a company that tries to make you sign such agreements. And especially not this one :) I don't know where you live. In my country (France) overly broad non compete are not enforceable, and also you need to be paid during the non compete period (at least 1/3 of your compensation or something like t…

I'm curious then what people do when they leave AWS. Do they just not work for 18 months?

They just ignore it, probably. It’s like those agreements that prohibit you from having other jobs. Forget about it.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#55

Post by randyrand »

otterley wrote: post #51
randyrand wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to add an addendum to my rental agreement created by a fairly sizeable property manager. Addendums are much easier for them to agree to.

First, a lease is not an employment agreement. Different situation. Second, did the addendum directly contradict or void language in the standard form lease crafted by corporate legal? If not, there's probably more room for negotiation there. Even in standard employee agreements, there's often an "invention disclosure form" that sort of operates as a built-in addendum for the new hire to fill out. This helps prevent…

Yes, it contradicted and voided certain ridiculous language in the first agreement.

I didn’t ask for much but I limited my liability back to common sense.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#56

Post by MisterBastahrd »

I think it should be federal law that any non-compete pays the employee salary and full benefits for time spent under the enforceable period of the non-compete if the employer tries to enforce it in court. If it's SO important that an employee not divulge any information that you need a contract for it, companies should have to pay for it.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#57

Post by rsstack »

forty wrote: post #31
MeNotLawyer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious then what people do when they leave AWS. Do they just not work for 18 months?

I'm not sure, but I feel there might be companies that are not selling cloud hosting solutions ;) Also, once again, do check the law where you live. It's very possible that non-compete only apply on stuff you worked on. For example, maybe if you did not work on S3 specifically, you might even be able to work on Google Cloud Storage if all you are considering are companies that make public clouds.

> I'm not sure, but I feel there might be companies that are not selling cloud hosting solutions ;)

> It basically limits me for working for a competitor of ALL of amazon for 18 months.

Amazon have an incredible long-tail of badly-made products across the entire software market. They do a lot more than cloud hosting & book delivery.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#58

Post by anonymousiam »

zeruch wrote: post #18

If you are in certain states (e.g. California) non-comps are almost wholly unenforceable and many folks will happily sign them knowing even a company like AWS won't be able to do squat. Jurisdiction matters, as non-comps are common, and many firms rely on a lack of knowing to pressure folks into behaving the way they like, regardless of actual legal sturdiness.

Signing such an agreement for a California job might still affect your ability to relocate to another state for a position with a competitor.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#59

Post by bombcar »

eli wrote: post #39
rsstack wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hope AWS won't enforce it. If you aren't very important (L7+, senior management), and you don't work on the _same exact_ project at a competitor, Amazon will probably not attempt to enforce it. Is it right that Amazon are doing this? Hell, no: they're awful for doing this. But that's not even one of the top-five awful things they do to employees.

Or they live in California where non competes are not enforceable.

Does that include non-competes signed before you moved? Could your plan be to quit and move to CA?

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#60

Post by cmckn »

You're misreading the agreement (unless it's changed significantly very recently). Like any non-compete I've ever seen/signed, it only applies to products/services that:

> Employee worked on or supported, or about which Employee obtained or received Confidential Information.

Totally fair if you don't want to enter that agreement, but the language is pretty standard.

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