Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics • Hacker News Board

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#71

Post by yew » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:31 PM UTC

temphn wrote: post #14

achompas wrote: post #3

Congratulations to Cloudant for signing a big deal. Why work with a company as...ethically ambiguous as Monsanto? I would love to hear how your team decided to accept this deal, and I hope more than dollar signs crossed your minds. Personally, I would start a startup (if I ever have the guts) for freedom. How could dealing with Monsanto differ from wearing golden handcuffs?

Monsanto has received terribly negative press, this is true. Part of that negative press is due to public dislike of GMO foods in Europe. Part of that is due to their DRM-like technology that stops farmers from replanting seeds after one generation. If you invented a new kind of seed which was significantly more productive but cost billions in R&D to develop, what business model would you use instead? Put in other wo…

Monsanto's primary business model is essentially peddling genetic DRM, and their secondary business model involves suing people who weren't particularly interested in associating with them in the first place. They've also been involved in bribery and coercion scandals on multiple levels, and (speaking as a GMO advocate here) they're incredibly irresponsible with their technology. It's no surprise they're unpopular.

It's true that Monsanto has put a lot of money into R&D, and that they're occasionally misrepresented by extremists and farmers who want to give the appearance of being small businesses, but that hardly justifies most of what they've done. And if they're really in such a precarious position, attempting to achieve a "food monopoly" is even more irresponsible than it would be otherwise.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#72

Post by Kroem3r » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:32 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #70

oldstrangers wrote: post #2

Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant. "We’ve been working with them for a few weeks now and we couldn’t be more thrilled with the partnership." Thrilled? I guess money is thrilling. "The data & reporting interfaces will be used across Monsanto and should be instrumental in the making of key business decisions." Key business decisions like which small farmer to sue into oblivion? Or what third world nation…

It's an unfortunate sign for HN when the top comment on a thread is such a content-free rant. If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet. There are frequently inane comm…

Fair opinion. But I found it refreshing; I was resigned to seeing a lot of preemptory 'separation of ethics and business' discussions.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#73

Post by lbrandy » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:33 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #70

oldstrangers wrote: post #2

Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant. "We’ve been working with them for a few weeks now and we couldn’t be more thrilled with the partnership." Thrilled? I guess money is thrilling. "The data & reporting interfaces will be used across Monsanto and should be instrumental in the making of key business decisions." Key business decisions like which small farmer to sue into oblivion? Or what third world nation…

It's an unfortunate sign for HN when the top comment on a thread is such a content-free rant. If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet. There are frequently inane comm…

I am -so- glad you said it. I've been resisting the urge for weeks to point out the /r/politics-ization of hacker news for fear of being "that guy" (you know, the one complaining about the good ol' days).

Just to be clear about what that means, to me, is that not so much politics is involved, but completely uncritical and tribalist politics, where we just unthinkingly upvote anyone advocating any position in support of the "good guys" and downvote anyone that defends the "bad guys".

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#74

Post by thepointyhat » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:33 PM UTC

oldstrangers wrote: post #2

Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant. "We’ve been working with them for a few weeks now and we couldn’t be more thrilled with the partnership." Thrilled? I guess money is thrilling. "The data & reporting interfaces will be used across Monsanto and should be instrumental in the making of key business decisions." Key business decisions like which small farmer to sue into oblivion? Or what third world nation…

For reference to the uneducated, possibly the largest criticism section on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Criticism

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#75

Post by davidandgoliath » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #67

davidandgoliath wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only case that was actually litigated..." Certainly -- because most give in vs. the threat of a lawsuit that'll put them in financial ruins. There's no EFF or ACLU for farmers, though I'm now thinking there should be.

I think we need to be careful with the notion that the most sympathetic party is most likely to be right.

Wholeheartedly agree. Monsanto's tactics in this situation are the greater evil, imho. The approach is the issue. I'm not under the assumption that every farmer is innocent, but Monsanto's actions against him/her lead my heart to plead on behalf of the farmer nonetheless.

The tactics of Monsanto show me where their heart is, $2mm a day or not in research expenditures.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#76

Post by thepointyhat » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:35 PM UTC

mcknz wrote: post #31

inmygarage wrote: post #16

For those looking for some background on Monsanto, take the time to read through this Vanity Fair article from 2008: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto... .

Food, Inc. is also valuable: http://www.foodincmovie.com/

+1 for this. I know people who have dealt with those asshats even at a corporate level and they are intent on becoming OCP from Robocop - I shit you not.

When you control the food, you control the people.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#77

Post by tptacek » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:36 PM UTC

davidandgoliath wrote: post #75

tptacek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to be careful with the notion that the most sympathetic party is most likely to be right.

Wholeheartedly agree. Monsanto's tactics in this situation are the greater evil, imho. The approach is the issue. I'm not under the assumption that every farmer is innocent, but Monsanto's actions against him/her lead my heart to plead on behalf of the farmer nonetheless. The tactics of Monsanto show me where their heart is, $2mm a day or not in research expenditures.

I don't understand your argument at all. Monsanto is a business, not a research laboratory or a charity.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#78

Post by william42 » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:37 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #61

dionidium wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting Ford is supporting the end of our organic transportation industry. I'm kidding, but it is worth remembering that the word "organic" doesn't contain in it some magical counterargument that requires no further elaboration.

Most people would take "organic" in this context to mean "natural", as in if you plant one seed, you can grow a crop, save some of the harvest and replant the seeds for next year, like we've been doing since we started farming. That is what Monsanto wants to stop.

If I have to choose between "plant one seed, save some of the harvest, and replant the seeds for next year" and saving the lives of a billion(10^9) people from starvation, I'm picking the latter.

this is what the Green Revolution did.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#79

Post by thepointyhat » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:37 PM UTC

heydenberk wrote: post #34

Alex3917 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Their technological achievements that have had an enormous role in the 'green revolution' increases in agricultural productivity allowing the human population to grow while malnourishment rates shrank." The problem is we now have a food system that is: - reliant on genetic monocultures - quickly depleting our non-renewable water supplies - heavily reliant on oil - causing massive algal blooms and hypoxic zones - des…

I'm sympathetic to this critique, although I think you've overstated it -- the risk of a 1 billion plus die-off is unlikely, and the distribution of tasty and nutritional food is likely better today than ever before. I would add, as well, the myriad of problems relating to rampant antibiotic use in food production. The fact is, however, that engaging with technology has risks and benefits, and disengagement often car…

Genetic monocultures have killed a lot of people in the past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

Now extrapolate that across the planet.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#80

Post by kongqiu » Wed, Oct 12, 2011, 7:38 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #70

oldstrangers wrote: post #2

Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant. "We’ve been working with them for a few weeks now and we couldn’t be more thrilled with the partnership." Thrilled? I guess money is thrilling. "The data & reporting interfaces will be used across Monsanto and should be instrumental in the making of key business decisions." Key business decisions like which small farmer to sue into oblivion? Or what third world nation…

It's an unfortunate sign for HN when the top comment on a thread is such a content-free rant. If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet. There are frequently inane comm…

It's an unfortunate sign for everyone that you (and/or Cloudant) wouldn't anticipate this reaction from going into business with Monsanto.

As to the "content-free" claim, sometimes a rant is an appropriate reaction. If some YC company partnered with Al Qaida, would we really need to spell out all the heinous things AQ has done before writing, "F- that!"?!?

EDIT: And to your "If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet."

-- It's one thing if Monsanto buys iPhones and Macs from Apple; that would represent ~.0001% of Apple's overall business. It's another thing if Monsanto is responsible for a significant % of your revenue.

(Of course, Cloudant's deal with Monsanto could represent only 2% of Cloudant's total revenue; but since it's a startup, the initial reaction people will have is that it's significantly higher than that.)