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It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

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Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#351

Post by buo »

JohnFen wrote: post #263
next_xibalba wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact consumers love something doesn't make it a good thing. It does make it a good thing for them. Which begs the question: why is it that you get to decide what is or isn't a good thing? Or: why shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves? The answers against the latter are, at their root, paternalistic and elitist. > they love also facebook Ah, yes. The old "facebook is as bad as cigarettes" trope. It f…

But something is seriously wrong with a society where it's impossible to avoid a thing that you consider harmful to yourself just because the larger market prefers it. It used to be that one of the strengths of our economic system was that you could find something to meet your needs even if your needs weren't the same as the majority.

I agree with you; I've noticed the same thing. It seems many niche or small markets are being abandoned in favor of the larger ones.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#352

Post by chrisjc »

mschuster91 wrote: post #323
ezfe wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work if you block the internet at the router level?

Simple: most router firewalls only block traffic that has source: and destination: , but traffic from source: to destination: will be allowed. That is enough for the device to emit a DNS query like "pbs.12345.metricservice.example.com" to notfiy some tracking service that the device with serial 12345 just switched to a channel labeled "PBS". The router will resolve that name record at the DNS server for metricservice…

Are you suggesting that devices connected to a network that has blocked their MAC can still make DNS requests?

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#353

Post by squarefoot »

There are still some dumb TVs manufacturers like SWEDX in the EU and Sceptre in the US. I don't have any of their products so I can't tell about their quality.

https://www.swedx.com/

https://www.sceptre.com/

Also some Samsung models use Tizen as the OS, which hopefully could be more easier to jailbreak.

Another option are signage displays, which usually (not always, though) are big dumb unconnected monitors. They're also a lot more robust (and pricey) than consumer TVs.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#354

Post by phendrenad2 »

kesslern wrote: post #179
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until your neighbor enables an open, unprotected wifi, your smart TV connects to it and auto-updates to start showing you ads.

Are there any TV models that are proven/documented to do this? I hear this claim all the time but I can't find a single demo of it happening. A previous HN thread [0] couldn't come up with any examples either. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275350

There is ONE comment by ONE random dude on the Samsung forums. That's it.

The standards for evidence that tech people will accept continue to amaze me. (https://kiwiziti.com/~matt/timberlake/)

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#355

Post by chrisjc »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #273
ortusdux wrote: post #259

I'm on year 3 of not accepting the EULA on my 'smart' tv. It has never been connected to the internet. It is effectively a dumb tv that was slightly cheaper because it has dormant bloatware.

Same. I don't understand why more people simply don't connect the thing to the network.

A great solution while it's an option... however think about where this can/might/is going.

- Ethernet over HDMI

- TVs with modems

- Ambient/background networks like Amazon Sidewalk

- Existing open networks

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#356

Post by EliRivers »

next_xibalba wrote: post #256
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they love also facebook, which monetize all their private life or sugary food, which alter your diet balance or cigarettes who can literally kill you. Not to mention all of them are addictive. The fact consumers love something doesn't make it a good thing.

> The fact consumers love something doesn't make it a good thing. It does make it a good thing for them. Which begs the question: why is it that you get to decide what is or isn't a good thing? Or: why shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves? The answers against the latter are, at their root, paternalistic and elitist. > they love also facebook Ah, yes. The old "facebook is as bad as cigarettes" trope. It f…

why shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves? The answers against the latter are, at their root, paternalistic and elitist.

Is that the same as bad? What is this zealotry against paternalism and elitism? Perhaps you could focus more on outcomes than some social engineering crusade you have, deciding that certain philosophies are automatically "bad".

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#357

Post by phendrenad2 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #209
sgjohnson wrote: post #154

I for one enjoy that my Smart TV is subsidized by all the morons who think that my data is worth anything. It's not connected to internet. It's connected to Apple TV box. Thanks for the discount.

> It's not connected to internet. Just wait until one of your neighbors gets a DSL or cable contract with a deal like "share your electricity with us to run a public hotspot and get free access to our nationwide hotspot network in turn". There have been complaints about smart TVs automatically connecting to open WiFi networks [1], it's not that far fetched to assume some manufacturer will sooner or later cut a deal w…

I'm skeptical about that report. Maybe the user's roommate set up wifi? Or maybe the TV was refurbished and happened to be configured to connect to a common network name like "AT&T WIFI". It's foolish to just accept one random report on the internet as truth.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#358

Post by chrisjc »

Havoc wrote: post #47
lordnacho wrote: post #11

What's frightening is that I can see on my PiHole the huge spike of requests that happens when one of my TVs comes on. Just the standard graph in the front page is enough to see exactly when the kids have turned it on. Most of the requests are rejected though, maybe someone can say whether that is enough to protect me from corporate surveillance.

Not just TVs...I can see my freaking lightbulbs in my pihole charts. What a time to be alive.

I get that light-bulbs need to connect to receive control commands and get firmware updates, but I'm wondering what other things might there be to worry about here?

Collecting usage data, sure...

Amazon Sidewalk has been brought up a couple of times in this thread and it's got me thinking about how others could also bring up similar ambient/background networks that piggyback off your main network.

If this were to happen, then your TVs and other devices wouldn't even need permission to connect to your main network and instead go through one of the many ambient/background networks.

Perhaps there's good reason to only use zwave and zigbee smart devices instead of wifi ones.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#359

Post by elxr »

jahnu wrote: post #7

Is there a reason I’m not aware of that not connecting a smart to to a network isn’t enough? Do they auto-connect to open Wi-Fi for example?

It's enough for me. I have a 2022 4K TV that I just never connected to a network and everything works just fine.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#360

Post by phendrenad2 »

LinuxBender wrote: post #316

Somewhat off topic... Has anyone started developing alternative firmware/OS for these things much like the alternate OS for cell phones GrapheneOS for pixels and related alternatives? There are a few dumb TV's remaining but options are very limited. Is it even feasible to just replace the firmware and OS on these things? Is there a JTAG or similar interface over USB or ethernet? [Edit] Upon thinking about this a bit…

Taking the case off of your 65-inch TV and soldering to the JTAG points is less than ideal. A "softmod" would be awesome. Maybe a web browser buffer overflow, a la the Nintendo 3ds and wii?
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