Where does this end? Like if the end goal is to block every IP that has a bad reputation score, why not go all in and block every Tor exit IP and every popular VPN exit node too? If you're gonna do something, do it right. That said, there's nothing stopping me hacking a residential router to make my (anonymous) Wikipedia edits.
Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
21–30 of 98 posts
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#22Is the premise over at Wikipedia still that an IP address meaningfully identifies a single editor? I think that ship sailed.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#23Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#24Is the premise over at Wikipedia still that an IP address meaningfully identifies a single editor? I think that ship sailed.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I cannot stress this enough, and I think it's important to frame this debate correctly when it comes to discussing these blocks. I have made somewhere around 1200 rangeblocks of webhosting providers in the last 5 weeks or so. Not one of them was targeted at a user." — [[User:Blablubbs]] in linked page Wikipedia doesn't block to punish individuals. It blocks to protect itself. There are plenty of ways around most blo…
I find this all vaguely baffling; I'm by no means a WP expert. If they're not targeted at users, what are they targeted at? Bots?
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#26Instead it's way past time they just attacked the problem directly with some flavor of more formalized cryptographic representation of time. Like just give new users a number to do prime factorization on tuned to a desired target, then sign the result. Ensure they need to do a few hours/days/whatever of crunching (could be graduated, a few hours gets you initial editing rights then you're expected to crunch a bit more over the following months to reach full user level). Scale over time with increasing processing power. Near zero cost to verify. Now even with hacked routers and so on it still always takes some time. For people who don't get banned it's a one-time cost, no problem, amortized over years/decades (Wikipedia is 21 years old now, and there are other older forums still around too). Anyone in the world can participate no money required, just a computer. But for attackers it's a constant burn. And it changes to calculations for things like soft bans too. If you've got a token representing a week's worth of compute built up over a few years and get a 48 hour ban, the incentive against ban evasion is high. It's not possible to build back up another token before the ban expires.
It's a shame there isn't some standard for this, no reason in principle a handful of authorities couldn't make chrono-tokens that any site could recognize and keep their own DB of. No permanent identity involved, no law enforcement, always the chance to start fresh, every site can choose whether to worry about other sites' bans or not (or contribute back their own or not). A token need not be tied to any account at all in fact. And no algorithms involved either, humans can take the driver's seat again because the cost equation is firmly back in moderators' favor and they have a dynamic tool to respond to abuse (they can just temporarily increase the time req during an attack surge as high as needed to quench it while not hurting long time users or even stopping new ones from signing up then lower it smoothly back down to let new people start faster as whatever caused the attack winds down).
It stinks we're into the 2020s and moderation doesn't really seem much different than the 90s.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#27can someone explain why an account isn't a requirement to contribute to Wikipedia?
Why should it be?
IDGAF one way or the other, but if you're going to be banning millions of users from editing via their IP, just commit to saying "We need to be able to identify you vandals, and a user account is the easiest way".
You're either true to a mission statement, or you should stop virtue signaling beliefs you don't hold with your mission statement.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find this all vaguely baffling; I'm by no means a WP expert. If they're not targeted at users, what are they targeted at? Bots?
The tragedy of the commons that happens when you can't establish the reputation of your visitors because regular users are indistinguishable from malicious actors when signals like IPs are intentionally obscured.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#29Is the premise over at Wikipedia still that an IP address meaningfully identifies a single editor? I think that ship sailed.
Re: Wikipedia globally blocks Apple Private Relay IP ranges from editing
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should it be?
Because that seems to be what the people in charge actually want but are half-assing in the name of optics. IDGAF one way or the other, but if you're going to be banning millions of users from editing via their IP, just commit to saying "We need to be able to identify you vandals, and a user account is the easiest way". You're either true to a mission statement, or you should stop virtue signaling beliefs you don't h…
Most certainly not. The people in charge actually want it to be open. You are simply watching those ambitions splinter somewhat as they are beset by the crashing waves of the harsh reality that is the Internet.