I have worked for decades with persons from India. Their caste issue and the way it affects every area of their lives is a real problem that needs to be solved. Just as American racism is a problem that needs to be solved, Indian caste biases need to be solved.
Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
51–60 of 86 posts
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#52If some Indian tells you that they are progressive and caste is not followed these days, ask them which caste their spouse belongs to. And that will answer how progressive they are.
Funny you mention that because I really dont know, but I fervently agree with you.
My spouse belongs to a different state, speaks a different language. It never occurred to us to find out.
We did have a religious ceremony and at that time it turned out that me and my spouse belong to the same 'gotra'. In conservative circles that's a big 'no no' because 'gotra' translates loosely to lineage, although in practice its just another label carried forward along patrilineal lines. Some would consider intra gotra marriage equivalent to incest.
Anyhow, this unexpected reveal was a surprise but no one batted an eyelid.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#53Caste system in India was created by British to divide and conquer for solidifying their colonial rule. Prior to that India had a “Class” system based on person’s nature(Guna) and actions(karma)- also called Varna system. Based on ability and to some extent traditional societal role. In modern India the political parties propagate it for their demographic politics whereas nobody cares about caste in day to day life.…
From the (quick) search I did following your un-sourced claim : the Hindu castes system existed centuries before the arrival of the British in India. And are you claiming one could have been born a Dalit and become a Brahmin (or whatever the "non-british" castes names you want to give them) during his lifetime? I highly doubt it ever was as casual as you make it sound... It seems this claim is somewhat popular in som…
The caste system is not "Hindu" in origin. According to some theories it may have originated after the Mongol invasions of India.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the (quick) search I did following your un-sourced claim : the Hindu castes system existed centuries before the arrival of the British in India. And are you claiming one could have been born a Dalit and become a Brahmin (or whatever the "non-british" castes names you want to give them) during his lifetime? I highly doubt it ever was as casual as you make it sound... It seems this claim is somewhat popular in som…
The caste system is not "Hindu" in origin. According to some theories it may have originated after the Mongol invasions of India.
Citation please. How tested is this 'theory'. Caste gets a mention in Manusmriti .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti
Manusmriti is 2 century BC whereas Mongol invasion is middle ages and had very little impact in India because for various reasons the Mongols did not really get inside India although there were a few battles where some Mongol generals tested the borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_India
Bhakti movement, a reformist movement of Hinduism mentions caste, thats 8th century AD, well before Mongol invasion. There is mention of caste in Budhdhist, Jain and Sikh literature as well. A significant component of many of these religion were a rejection of the prevailing caste system.
From the sound of it, the parent's claim has a whiff of what is derogatorily referred to as propaganda of WhatsApp University -- a well oiled and funded propaganda and fake news machinery of the political party in power. Please do not fall for it.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#55Quoted post unavailable.
No. Classes aren't castes. You can change class but not castes. In this way it is more like social-racism. I don't think the surnames "Gates" or "Rockefeller" are reserved or showing to which caste/class they belong. As for group A feeling superior to group B, it's common everywhere and is purely subjective. Unlike a caste system that has some real everyday-life consequences.
No post body was provided.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#56Quoted post unavailable.
What was the Harvard equivalent of sati?
Sati existed in upper castes too. In the Kennedy family maintaining a certain social style is far more important. JKF sister went through lobotomy and suffered entire life social pressure due to mental health problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
What was the Harvard equivalent of sati?
Having to send your kids to Umass.
Old money vs new money, Harvard vs others, Boston Irish vs Others. The cultural divides are subtle. They are like glass ceiling. You will realize how big a deal it is when you enter to their priorities. For getting most of the jobs, no one could care less. Try housing - You will not get housing in certain areas unless you project a certain class.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#58Caste system in India was created by British to divide and conquer for solidifying their colonial rule. Prior to that India had a “Class” system based on person’s nature(Guna) and actions(karma)- also called Varna system. Based on ability and to some extent traditional societal role. In modern India the political parties propagate it for their demographic politics whereas nobody cares about caste in day to day life.…
From the (quick) search I did following your un-sourced claim : the Hindu castes system existed centuries before the arrival of the British in India. And are you claiming one could have been born a Dalit and become a Brahmin (or whatever the "non-british" castes names you want to give them) during his lifetime? I highly doubt it ever was as casual as you make it sound... It seems this claim is somewhat popular in som…
Reference Bhagvad Gita 4-13 . It talks about 4 varnas based on Guna & karmas. The famous sage Valmiki was a Shudra who became a Brahmin by composing the epic Ramayana.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
The caste system is not "Hindu" in origin. According to some theories it may have originated after the Mongol invasions of India.
Citation please. How tested is this 'theory'. Caste gets a mention in Manusmriti . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti Manusmriti is 2 century BC whereas Mongol invasion is middle ages and had very little impact in India because for various reasons the Mongols did not really get inside India although there were a few battles where some Mongol generals tested the borders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_inva…
Two big bloopers
1) Mongols never invaded India. Even though they reached river Sindh while hunting a Muslim ruler. They had deference towards India - the land Buddhism arose from. Some historians say lack of grassland etc but they never came here. Even your Wiki link says the same except for the disingenuous headline. Kashmir was invaded my Muslims from Mongol captured regions not Mingols themselves. Mongols were not Muslims.
2) Show me the Sanskrit text of manusmriti talking about anything but the varna system.
I have studied this in original Sanskrit and dont need cut/paste reference to bolster common but false propaganda from Wiki or WhatsApp university. Satmaye Jayate - truth is always victorious.
Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Citation please. How tested is this 'theory'. Caste gets a mention in Manusmriti . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti Manusmriti is 2 century BC whereas Mongol invasion is middle ages and had very little impact in India because for various reasons the Mongols did not really get inside India although there were a few battles where some Mongol generals tested the borders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_inva…
Two big bloopers 1) Mongols never invaded India. Even though they reached river Sindh while hunting a Muslim ruler. They had deference towards India - the land Buddhism arose from. Some historians say lack of grassland etc but they never came here. Even your Wiki link says the same except for the disingenuous headline. Kashmir was invaded my Muslims from Mongol captured regions not Mingols themselves. Mongols were no…
> Mongols never invaded India. Even though they reached river Sindh
I agree with you and havent claimed otherwise (quoting myself: Mongols did not really get inside India although there were a few battles where some Mongol generals tested the borders.). Was responding to parent's claim that caste system was an artifact Mongol invasion. Not sure what relevance of them not being Muslims or the scarcity/search for grassland (both true statements) have anything to the topic though.
> Show me the Sanskrit text of manusmriti talking about anything but the varna system.
The word caste of course cannot occur in a sanskrit text. By caste one means the varna system of designating people into Brahmins, Kshatriya ... and others