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Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

columbia.edu

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Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#41

Post by the_omegist »

reactspa wrote: post #5

I won't read it because caste is a trauma-inducing subject to me. I'll just leave my comment here so that the truth is available for anyone who cares. I'm a member of the so-called "upper castes", but not a Brahmin. Parents were very bohemian, never taught me anything about caste. Go to college in India. My best friend in college is a Brahmin. I knew that Brahmins were priests, didn't really know anything else about…

Can you explain, if Brahmins represent only 4% of the population (like a comment said), why in your example the landlord and the girls expected a Brahmins (and not just "any 'respectable' caste") ?

To me, it sounds very illogical : like only wanting to rent or marry millionaires...

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#43

Post by the_omegist »

iamnotleetcoder wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

No. Classes aren't castes. You can change class but not castes. In this way it is more like social-racism.

I don't think the surnames "Gates" or "Rockefeller" are reserved or showing to which caste/class they belong.

As for group A feeling superior to group B, it's common everywhere and is purely subjective. Unlike a caste system that has some real everyday-life consequences.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#44

Post by lotsofpulp »

nmridul wrote: post #42

If some Indian tells you that they are progressive and caste is not followed these days, ask them which caste their spouse belongs to. And that will answer how progressive they are.

Caste is another word for tribe. All across the world, the vast majority of people marry in their own tribe, for a variety of reasons.

I married within my own tribe because I like my tribe’s food and customs, and I wanted a spouse who likes the same. It all comes down to socioeconomic class at the end anyway, whether it be called “caste”, or “doctor/lawyer/engineer”, or MIT/cal tech/Stanford grad, etc.

If you have a friend who is a doctor or engineer earning $400k per year, would you try to set them up with a janitor earning $40k per year? Maybe, but I suspect probably not. Progressive or not progressive, humans are still animals, and they are going to play the mating game.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#45

Post by sorokod »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #44
nmridul wrote: post #42

If some Indian tells you that they are progressive and caste is not followed these days, ask them which caste their spouse belongs to. And that will answer how progressive they are.

Caste is another word for tribe. All across the world, the vast majority of people marry in their own tribe, for a variety of reasons. I married within my own tribe because I like my tribe’s food and customs, and I wanted a spouse who likes the same. It all comes down to socioeconomic class at the end anyway, whether it be called “caste”, or “doctor/lawyer/engineer”, or MIT/cal tech/Stanford grad, etc. If you have a…

Your examples are based on personal choices, that is not what the cast system is.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#46

Post by lotsofpulp »

sorokod wrote: post #45
lotsofpulp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caste is another word for tribe. All across the world, the vast majority of people marry in their own tribe, for a variety of reasons. I married within my own tribe because I like my tribe’s food and customs, and I wanted a spouse who likes the same. It all comes down to socioeconomic class at the end anyway, whether it be called “caste”, or “doctor/lawyer/engineer”, or MIT/cal tech/Stanford grad, etc. If you have a…

Your examples are based on personal choices, that is not what the cast system is.

That is what we like to think, but whether or not you are a doctor, or a high earning software developer, or a janitor is greatly influenced by the parents you have, which country you were born in, what year you were born in, which school district you went to school in, etc.

Hell, as I grew older, I realized that families in my own tribe that had more male children were generally far more economically successful than the families with more female children (because it was a paternalistic tribe at the time of immigration and wealth buildup in the new country). The men stay together and support each other, the women get married out and go to live with their spouse’s family. Their children’s economic opportunities were most definitely influenced by whether or not their dad had a lot of brothers to depend on or not.

If the income/wealth gap in society is large, there is basically no way to that society does not get stratified. The only solution to excess tribalism is to reduce that income/wealth gap, which is unfortunately moving in the opposite direction.

Note that I am not a proponent of a caste system or a formal method of tribalism, but I am merely pointing out that marrying someone in your own tribe is expected behavior, and will still happen absent a formal and rigid tribal delineation.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#47

Post by sokoloff »

nmridul wrote: post #42

If some Indian tells you that they are progressive and caste is not followed these days, ask them which caste their spouse belongs to. And that will answer how progressive they are.

I wonder if there are similar strength effects across progressive Indians when compared to asking Americans the highest level of education they and their spouse completed.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#48

Post by sorokod »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #46
sorokod wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your examples are based on personal choices, that is not what the cast system is.

That is what we like to think, but whether or not you are a doctor, or a high earning software developer, or a janitor is greatly influenced by the parents you have, which country you were born in, what year you were born in, which school district you went to school in, etc. Hell, as I grew older, I realized that families in my own tribe that had more male children were generally far more economically successful than…

Expected is different from rigidly and widely enforced.

Re: Castes in India: Their Mechanism, Genesis and Development

#49

Post by lotsofpulp »

sorokod wrote: post #48
lotsofpulp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what we like to think, but whether or not you are a doctor, or a high earning software developer, or a janitor is greatly influenced by the parents you have, which country you were born in, what year you were born in, which school district you went to school in, etc. Hell, as I grew older, I realized that families in my own tribe that had more male children were generally far more economically successful than…

Expected is different from rigidly and widely enforced.

I was responding to:

> If some Indian tells you that they are progressive and caste is not followed these days

If an Indian brought home an educated and achieved decamillionaire spouse, I doubt their parents would care what caste they are in.

It is the same all over the world, caste or no caste.

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