It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#81

Post by im3w1l » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

Filligree wrote: post #9

rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other day I was reading the HDMI spec. I realised, in almost full horror, it’s stupidly streaming pixels instead of image deltas. When every TV has memory enough for several full frame images, this is just crazy.

You're thinking of bandwidth savings? Rethink that. If HDMI were delta-compressed, then what happens if you exceed the bandwidth limit for several frames in a row? To be reliable, it needs to have as much bandwidth allocated as is needed for bitmap streaming. And in that case, why not just stream the bitmaps...

And when gaming latency is a big issue, so buffering a few frames to have margin for a complex one would be unacceptable.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#82

Post by yardstick » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

zasdffaa wrote: post #65

A serious, non-trolling question to all. I've not had a TV for decades and for me that's a good thing. I've watched TVs in pubs (I'm in the uk) and round my mates' houses so it's not become some strange alien thing, and I'm still happy to be without it (that is, on balance; there are good things about broadcast TV and some bad, and the latter outweighs the former for me). In your opinion, is there actual overall valu…

For me, a TV is a large monitor that sits in the lounge that the family can watch a streamed movie or tv series on the couch. It’s not about broadcast/cable/satellite channels anymore, it’s about a nice medium to enjoy media on.

Laptop/tablet screens are ok when travelling but after a few weeks I do miss a large screen and no fluffing around with setting up the viewing area, sound, etc.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#83

Post by jpe90 » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

zasdffaa wrote: post #65

A serious, non-trolling question to all. I've not had a TV for decades and for me that's a good thing. I've watched TVs in pubs (I'm in the uk) and round my mates' houses so it's not become some strange alien thing, and I'm still happy to be without it (that is, on balance; there are good things about broadcast TV and some bad, and the latter outweighs the former for me). In your opinion, is there actual overall valu…

The value is that it lets you comfortably watch stuff with other people.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#84

Post by noduerme » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

zasdffaa wrote: post #65

A serious, non-trolling question to all. I've not had a TV for decades and for me that's a good thing. I've watched TVs in pubs (I'm in the uk) and round my mates' houses so it's not become some strange alien thing, and I'm still happy to be without it (that is, on balance; there are good things about broadcast TV and some bad, and the latter outweighs the former for me). In your opinion, is there actual overall valu…

I think we've gotten to the point where "watching TV" is not a thing people do anymore if they're under 70. But "having a TV" is something most people do - it just doesn't imply the same thing. I don't have a TV per se, or any black box hanging on a wall in my house, so the first thing most people mention when they visit is "you have no TV! I've been wanting to get rid of mine, or put it in the basement, but the kids....". But I do have a discreet projector for watching movies or shows (most of which I pirate). The projector itself, however, is a smart TV, although that's not something I noted when I bought it. It's full of apps that update themselves and all manner of shit I didn't ask for. My only use for it is having it play things off a USB card.

I'm actually not sure what the complaint is about "smart" TVs. Just don't give them your WiFi password, or else isolate them on a closed LAN. Plug in your own devices to play what you want to play on them. The cross-marketing is what makes them affordable... the special buttons for accidentally turning on Netflix, that Netflix paid to place in just that position on the remote control, are the reason a 60" TV is within your budget. So just control your network and take the free shit. As long as it has the ports you need. If it doesn't have ports, then obviously don't buy it.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#85

Post by yardstick » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #28

lordnacho wrote: post #11

What's frightening is that I can see on my PiHole the huge spike of requests that happens when one of my TVs comes on. Just the standard graph in the front page is enough to see exactly when the kids have turned it on. Most of the requests are rejected though, maybe someone can say whether that is enough to protect me from corporate surveillance.

It may be enough for that TV, but many devices have a custom-set DNS address and ignore the one given through DHCP, unless you set up a firewall where you block that address, then they fall back to using the one provided via DHCP. That's how Chromecast and Amazon devices are doing it.

DoH / DoT DNS privacy and security works both for and against individual users. It definitely works against network owners and operators.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#86

Post by hiq » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:23 AM UTC

zasdffaa wrote: post #65

A serious, non-trolling question to all. I've not had a TV for decades and for me that's a good thing. I've watched TVs in pubs (I'm in the uk) and round my mates' houses so it's not become some strange alien thing, and I'm still happy to be without it (that is, on balance; there are good things about broadcast TV and some bad, and the latter outweighs the former for me). In your opinion, is there actual overall valu…

> (I do watch DVDs on computer BTW)

Do you watch them alone, or do you have a dedicated screen for that? Or what's your setup? Many people have a "TV" just for the screen, not the tuner, simply because you don't want the same kind (size) of screen at the same position to watch a movie and to do e.g. browse the internet.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#87

Post by maccard » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #76

andybak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a TV I'd miss the ability to "turn something on without being paralysed by choice". Usually mealtimes or when very tired, I just want to turn on the TV and flick through a handful of channels and just watch whatever there is on. It's mainly a UX thing. There's just more friction with TV apps even if they do have a "watch live" option. Channel hopping is just much harder.

It isn't much different to open YouTube, pick whatever's recommended, and just let autoplay pick the next video to play. You get better tailored content.

And what are you connecting YouTube to to display that content? For most people that's a TV I would guess.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#88

Post by maccard » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #55

tpxl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[0] indicates they earn some 10-20$/year for vizio and 40$/month ([sic], article probably meant year) for Roku from advertising. With a lifetime of a TV at about 5 years this puts you in 100-200$ extra territory. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-adver...

How much cost do the extra electronics impose?

Very close to 0.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#89

Post by Root_Denied » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:25 AM UTC

zasdffaa wrote: post #65

A serious, non-trolling question to all. I've not had a TV for decades and for me that's a good thing. I've watched TVs in pubs (I'm in the uk) and round my mates' houses so it's not become some strange alien thing, and I'm still happy to be without it (that is, on balance; there are good things about broadcast TV and some bad, and the latter outweighs the former for me). In your opinion, is there actual overall valu…

I haven't had cable for 15 years at this point and don't miss it, but I generally have had a TV in the living room with a Chromecast or Fire stick plugged into it.

It's nice to be able to throw a movie from the plex server on there with my SO and have a stay-in movie night with some popcorn. Especially during covid lockdown we did this almost weekly with movies, documentaries from youtube or netflix, and tv shows we watched together. A computer screen doesn't really provide the same experience.

On Black Friday I found a deal for a new TV and picked it up, but it was a Roku smart tv. I couldn't find a way to get it working without creating a Roku account so I made one with a dummy email address and then disconnected it from the wifi. Only use it with the Chromecast, which we can use for plex/youtube/netflix without trying to futz around with the UI on the TV.

Re: It’s Still Stupidly, Difficult to Buy a ‘Dumb’ TV

#90

Post by snvzz » Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 10:26 AM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #6

Every TV is "stupid" when it's not connected to the internet, and none of them can transmit your data when disconnected.

Every "smart tv" is or will be smart enough to connect to the internet via your friendly neighbor's "smart tv", and to do so silently for tracking purposes only.