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We lost 54k GitHub stars

httpie.io

151–160 of 697 posts

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#151
post #94
post #2

That's crazy that a manual error by someone, for whatever reason, end up being an article blaming Github for all sort of reasons. And never accepting that the thing that really failed here is the user who performed the action.

With that mindset, planes would still fall out of the sky every month. Because basically 90% of plane crashes used to be "pilot error". If you then say, well, it was pilot error, bad pilot, can't do anything about it, that's the way it is, pilot should've not made an error... well, then we wouldn't have reached the amazing aviation safety we have now.

Likewise, surgical deaths. The number of people dying on the operating table is in sharp decline because hospitals have lately begun to institute procedures that make mistakes non-fatal.

An early one was making the "oxygen" knob on the anesthetist's gas panel not go to zero. But it appears lots of people here can't imagine why that change was made.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#153
post #108

I really like this post. While the author clearly feels bad about the fact that they've lost his community and that GitHub didn't restore it (which is honestly what any of us would've felt under similar circumstances), they're also focusing towards the future and using their personal experience as a parable all of us can learn from. Lesson 1 on UI design I think is really important. I often think scary popup boxes ar…

> " that GitHub couldn't restore it " What an odd turn of phrase.

Not sure what you meant? Are you pointing out couldn't vs didn't? If so, I didn't really think about it, although now that you point it out, I think didn't would've been a better fit. I'll edit it, thanks!

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#154

I really like this post. While the author clearly feels bad about the fact that they've lost his community and that GitHub didn't restore it (which is honestly what any of us would've felt under similar circumstances), they're also focusing towards the future and using their personal experience as a parable all of us can learn from. Lesson 1 on UI design I think is really important. I often think scary popup boxes ar…

I specifically dislike the "Lessons" section, as it throws all the blame on github and doesn't mention the seemingly obvious advice: "make sure you're not on autopilot when taking potentially dangerous actions, on github or any website". Yes, GitHub probably should show the stars in the warning UI, and hopefully that will prevent some of these mistakes. But GitHub makes it pretty hard to make this mistake already - t…

I would argue that the fact that GitHub themselves made the same error really tells us that yes the UI makes it way to easy to do this. Considering the number of repos on GitHub I wouldn't be surprised if someone made the same error every a couple of weeks (but typically not with such high stakes).

I would also say that post does not come across to me as he is only blaming GitHub.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#155
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically dislike the "Lessons" section, as it throws all the blame on github and doesn't mention the seemingly obvious advice: "make sure you're not on autopilot when taking potentially dangerous actions, on github or any website". Yes, GitHub probably should show the stars in the warning UI, and hopefully that will prevent some of these mistakes. But GitHub makes it pretty hard to make this mistake already - t…

How many years have we had to learn from people using programs to know that people make mistakes. Goodness knows how many people burned themselves using "rm". For that reason alone, "rm" is a bad tool, and should be replaced with something like trash-cli.

that would break billions of scripts and confuse the hell out of hundreds of thousands or millions of users. Especially seems unnecessary since most distros ship an alias that makes the default `rm` command run with the `-I` or `-i` command.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#156

Well, it is at the top of Hacker News. If everyone just goes to https://github.com/httpie/httpie and stars it again - we'll fix it in a jiffy!

As the article noted, that absolutely would not fix the underlying problem at all.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#157
post #2

That's crazy that a manual error by someone, for whatever reason, end up being an article blaming Github for all sort of reasons. And never accepting that the thing that really failed here is the user who performed the action.

Github UX team has a responsibility to its customers to make this error MUCH harder to make than it is

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#158

That comparison spot the difference pic is really scary. I had to check it 2 times myself before I could spot that the last line is different. Now that you're on the HN's frontpage, hopefully somebody from Github upper management will see this and all will be good soon thanks to gold old HN (especially when they did the same thing themselves and restored it). Wish you the best.

> That comparison spot the difference pic is really scary. I had to check it 2 times myself before I could spot that the last line is different. That's not the only difference. The other difference is that you also have to type the full repository name, including the organization name. If they wanted to delete the correct repository, they would have to type httpie/.github, but instead they typed httpie/httpie. It's u…

This UI is predicated on the notion that the user will connect the word you're asked to type to the repository you're intending to modify.

Most of the time that's true, or we'd be hearing about this happening all of the time. But 'most of the time' is not 'every time'. 'Almost always' is also not 'every time'. This is a distinction that Human Factors people make that victim-blaming nerds do not.

You've seen the video on Youtube (or Reddit) of the guy holding the fish throwing his phone into the lake? He didn't do that because he was stupid, he did it because he made an executive decision to, "hold fish, take picture with phone, throw it in the water" and then his motor cortex swapped 'it' to the wrong hand and went on autopilot.

If you don't like that example, I know of a highly secure data center in Seattle that had the emergency power cutoff button pushed not once but twice by different tenants. The first time was a pure accident of bumping it while doing maintenance. The second time someone opened an acrylic case and pushed the button because they thought "buttons open doors, I see a button. Sure is weird that it is covered with a box... hey why did the lights go out?" You have problem, you observe action or object that solves problems (maybe not this problem), monkey brain attempts action to see if problem is solved.

Typing in the repository name narrows the gap between intent and action, but it doesn't close it. Technically making someone type, "Make hippie/hippie private" would at least make them spell out the intent, narrowing it again. But it doesn't make them state the intent. Strictly speaking, they are being told to transcribe text. Whether they parse the text they're typing or not is a separate step, in two different parts of the brain. Any of those fails to connect and you have a catastrophic destruction. From a Precautionary Principle standpoint, the consequences are exactly the same with all three options, and only the likelihood has changed.

If you want to make a big dent in outcomes you have to also reduce the consequences, not just the opportunity. Making all actions reversible is the most conceptually simple and the most technically difficult option. Parceling out consequences over time is usually less difficult, and if you pick an order that makes the feedback immediate, then the person realizes quickly that what they meant and what they said didn't line up, before the real damage kicks in.

Github is built around git. The two biggest ways to permanently lose data from git, one of them is protected by permissions and may be off by default. The other one is automatic but takes 30 days. That's two very different precedents that have been set, and they picked the wrong one to emulate.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#159
post #129

On the plus side. 54k know and use this project not because they have it starred. So it will regain the stars rapidly, and it will again hit all the trending metrics, so new people will discover it also. No biggie

You wholly miss the point.

Re: We lost 54k GitHub stars

#160
post #94
post #2

That's crazy that a manual error by someone, for whatever reason, end up being an article blaming Github for all sort of reasons. And never accepting that the thing that really failed here is the user who performed the action.

With that mindset, planes would still fall out of the sky every month. Because basically 90% of plane crashes used to be "pilot error". If you then say, well, it was pilot error, bad pilot, can't do anything about it, that's the way it is, pilot should've not made an error... well, then we wouldn't have reached the amazing aviation safety we have now.

Pilots and doctors are two great examples of customer pools where UI/UX actually gets a significant amount of attention because we all realize how high the stakes are. I imagine the FDA has zero tolerance for vendor software that is bundled with dark patterns that encourages doctors to promote the prescription of certain drugs over others... at the same time we have quizzes that have made it to HN multiple times[1] that reinforce the "correctness" of dark patterns.

UI/UX often gets overlooked as being unimportant, and, as a backend person I can definitely sympathize, but when you're building a product that people use for important things it is important to give UI/UX the attention it deserves.

1. https://cantunsee.space/

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