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US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

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Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#571

Post by rbanffy »

threeseed wrote: post #419
FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong

> cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence Which would imply famine, poverty, the flu are forms of violence. This distortion of the English language is so tortured it's just nonsensical at this point.

When one nation causes another to suffer famine, poverty, and a devastating epidemic, that should pretty much qualify as a form of war.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#572

Post by BeFlatXIII »

version_five wrote: post #493
homonculus1 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfair as it may seem, it's better that the legal system limit itself to actual occurrences and not extrapolate to hypotheticals

Interesting, I see both sides. I agree completely with you that they shouldn't extrapolate. But in the case of attempted murder, wouldn't this just mean proving beyond doubt that someone tried to kill? If there is doubt that the accused meant only to harm, for example, then I get it. But if they provably tried to kill, however you prove that, then I see the argument that it's irrelevant whether they succeeded or not.…

> in the case of attempted murder, wouldn't this just mean proving beyond doubt that someone tried to kill?

I'd assume yes. Otherwise, it would be a charge like gross negligence or assault+battery.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#573

Post by jaywalk »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #319
jaywalk wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably reading too deeply into it. Remember, North Korea is mostly firewalled off from the worldwide Internet, so that's most likely where the problem begins.

In order for crypto to exist, it has to be on the global Blockchain. There is no isolation via firewall possible.

The Blockchain isn't just some magical thing that exists. If you can't access the global Internet, you can't access the Blockchain.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#574

Post by sneak »

SllX wrote: post #529
sneak wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free peaceful expression should never be a crime, as there is no victim and no one is harmed. Teaching itself is never inherently harmful. Sanctions are authoritarian nonsense.

By your logic, Osama bin Laden and/or rather the instructors under him were only engaging in free peaceful expression when they were training men how to be engage in war and acts of terrorism against the United States and the West. There has to be a limiting principle, and we have one in the law: giving comfort and aid to enemies of the United States and exporting controlled technology to sanctioned countries are pro…

> By your logic, Osama bin Laden and/or rather the instructors under him were only engaging in free peaceful expression when they were training men how to be engage in war and acts of terrorism against the United States and the West.

Yes, that is correct. Teaching people is never directly harmful.

Invoking bogeymen by name is an emotional argument. What I said holds true.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#575

Post by sneak »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #471
novok wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was teaching them how to manipulate distributed database entries that they have the explicit permission to use via their own private keys. If that is anywhere near equivalent to murder then I have a bridge to sell you. Next up teaching north korea how to farm better and how to dodge sanctions importing fertilizer is bad, because then their people wont starve as much and therefore can do more evil in the world via…

Helping the North Korean government do anything is assisting a government happy to let their populous die while resisting sanctions. I don’t think I compared it to murder from an immediate seriousness perspective, but I’m sure the impact of Bitcoin on NK would cost more than one life’s worth of quality of life (improving the bottom line, helping the country resist sanctions for longer, etc).

Teaching a human being something is not the same thing as helping a government do something.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#576

Post by SllX »

sneak wrote: post #574
SllX wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic, Osama bin Laden and/or rather the instructors under him were only engaging in free peaceful expression when they were training men how to be engage in war and acts of terrorism against the United States and the West. There has to be a limiting principle, and we have one in the law: giving comfort and aid to enemies of the United States and exporting controlled technology to sanctioned countries are pro…

> By your logic, Osama bin Laden and/or rather the instructors under him were only engaging in free peaceful expression when they were training men how to be engage in war and acts of terrorism against the United States and the West. Yes, that is correct. Teaching people is never directly harmful. Invoking bogeymen by name is an emotional argument. What I said holds true.

Except that they did so with the intent of engaging in Acts of Terrorism and Warfare against the United States and the West. Intent matters, as does knowledge of intent such as when someone specifically, as a US citizen, teach a country how to use a technology to bypass a sanctions regime knowing they intend to try and use it to bypass the sanctions regime imposed by the United States.

We have a democratically elected Constitutional government which engages in foreign policy. It is not the place nor the right of a private citizen to undermine that foreign policy.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#577

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

sneak wrote: post #575
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helping the North Korean government do anything is assisting a government happy to let their populous die while resisting sanctions. I don’t think I compared it to murder from an immediate seriousness perspective, but I’m sure the impact of Bitcoin on NK would cost more than one life’s worth of quality of life (improving the bottom line, helping the country resist sanctions for longer, etc).

Teaching a human being something is not the same thing as helping a government do something.

You know governments are comprised of humans right?

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#578

Post by cormacrelf »

wolverine876 wrote: post #560
cormacrelf wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But this is not a "criminal accusation". This is an announcement of the result of the judicial process. A jury convicted this guy, and now a judge sentenced him to 5 years. There are no further accusations being lobbed at him. It is perfectly acceptable to take DoJ's word for what the verdict and sentence were. It is also perfectly acceptable to take their word for what he has been convicted OF. Convictions are…

I have a few thoughts: If you don't know how they can mislead you, it only means you are more vulnerable. We don't know what we don't know. Whole worlds of issues and problems can be easily omitted, for example. Trusting any source as described is a fundamental mistake. But this is really unnerving: > Very rarely, that process gets it wrong Why do you say that? That is not my understanding of the process. Look at all…

From 1976 to 2020, federal prosecutions led to only 11 people executed, and 8 of them were in 2020. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/IN11474.pdf

In comparison, there were about 1500 from state courts. This makes sense when you realise murder is almost always prosecuted as one of 50 different state crimes. You have missed that I'm specifically talking about the US DoJ. State equivalents are entirely different organisations that I am not commenting on.

> DoJ accusation but no indictment > Do you mean, 'indictment but no conviction'?

No. Your little aphorism is true of many district attorneys but not of the US DoJ. I am referring to, e.g. statements by the FBI, which is a branch of the DoJ. The FBI in particular has a much more questionable history than the DoJ's criminal division, which handles prosecutions.

Finally, on this theme of distinguishing federal prosecutors from everyone else, no, I don't have as much confidence in all criminal convictions everywhere as you might have been thinking. But I have quite a lot in US DoJ's ones. I studied law, but not US law. I do know how they can mislead you. Feel free to take my word for it as far as that goes.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#579

Post by kayamon »

sofixa wrote: post #549
kayamon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happens if the people can trade without requiring the governments or their monetary policies?

They can't. Unless you limit trade to your immediate vicinity, you'd need government provided and managed infrastructure, customs and what not to trade.

No you don't. If a guy on the other side of the world wants to teach me to juggle via Zoom, and I want to pay him BTC to do that, we can both trade that service directly without requiring a government to intervene.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#580

Post by Eavolution »

If he was trying to help the DPRK government, I have no sympathy for him. But if he was trying to help innocent people get around sanctions I kind of feel different. I've always felt uncomfortable with sanctions affecting individuals who had nothing to do with the reason the countries being sanctioned.
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