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Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com

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Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#21

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

choeger wrote: post #3

Being anti-nuclear is deeply engrained in the DNA of Germany's green party. Even more so than climate change. In fact, when the anti-nuclear movement started, climate change wasn't even a topic. In other words, the only thing that needs to happen is the German green party to admit a mistake in fighting nuclear power harder than fossile fuels...

There have been concerns about the risks of flooding to nuclear plants in Germany.

https://energytransition.org/2013/06/german-nuclear-plants-f...

Restarting nuclear isn't a bad idea, but it needs to be approached systematically and cautiously such that the risks from natural disasters and economic impacts are minimized, while also weighing the risks of continuing to support Russia.

Unfortunately, many plants across the world have not had accurate risk assessments done, both for natural disasters and economic risks.

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#22

Post by V__ »

moooo99 wrote: post #18
V__ wrote: post #11

> According to the text, they might even need a constitutional amendment. I am no expert in German law, but this strikes me as an unlikely requirement that would nevertheless be doable. A 2/3 majority is needed in both the Bundesrat (senate) and Bundestag (house). Not happening. > This is what they say: The existing nuclear reactors should have passed a lengthy security inspection in 2019, which they didn’t pass sinc…

> A 2/3 majority is needed in both the Bundesrat (senate) and Bundestag (house). Not happening. Absolutely not ever going to happen. > The author makes it sound like those are cars which can be easily refitted, upgraded and certified. This would take enormous amounts of time and money for the three plants which are still online, and who knows how much for the ones which are offline. Even Lindner says that extending t…

> We do have basically free measures to take to at least slighly reduce the fossil fuel consumption. Mandatory home office availability for suitable jobs, car free/reduced days, speed limits, encouraging less heating, etc.

Lindner: Not on my watch we don't

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#23

Post by Retric »

hutzlibu wrote: post #13
Retric wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia recently attacked a nuclear power plant not that far from Germany, which happened to survive without serious issue. So, this isn’t meaningless speculation even if you personally don’t view it as a major issue. In the end designing a nuclear power plant to survive shelling might not mitigate that much risk, but it is something being seriously considered in many circles.

The scenario above was, russia attacks a nuclear plant on purpose, with the intention to destroy or damage it. What happened in the Ukraine lately was no such thing, it was conquering a nuclear plant and the plant itself was not damaged in the process. Still irresponsible and criminal, (like the whole war) - but not the same as targeting a nuclear plant, with the intention to destroy.

The power plant avoided critical damage, but it was very much harmed in the attack.

As far as analysis goes you can’t limit things to exactly what happened. If attacking nuclear power plants is on the table then a single miscommunication means someone is attempting to destroy it. Even just destroying some water pipes or some generators could lead to very serious issues.

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#24

Post by formerly_proven »

renewiltord wrote: post #19
V__ wrote: post #11

> According to the text, they might even need a constitutional amendment. I am no expert in German law, but this strikes me as an unlikely requirement that would nevertheless be doable. A 2/3 majority is needed in both the Bundesrat (senate) and Bundestag (house). Not happening. > This is what they say: The existing nuclear reactors should have passed a lengthy security inspection in 2019, which they didn’t pass sinc…

Is security there the same as what we'd call security or is it like `securité` in French which is safety? I'm pretty sure the former is not that hard, and you can bypass it if there is a real national need. The real thing is that Germany has NS and NS2 and so they're happy to just guzzle gas.

Safety.

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#25

Post by galooomot »

outside1234 wrote: post #5

Let's be real - they just don't care about anyone but themselves.

Well, in terms of money, germany is among the biggest supporters of ukraine since the war started in 2014, donating several billion euros. https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/aussenpolitik/laenderinfo...

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#26

Post by SllX »

V__ wrote: post #11

> According to the text, they might even need a constitutional amendment. I am no expert in German law, but this strikes me as an unlikely requirement that would nevertheless be doable. A 2/3 majority is needed in both the Bundesrat (senate) and Bundestag (house). Not happening. > This is what they say: The existing nuclear reactors should have passed a lengthy security inspection in 2019, which they didn’t pass sinc…

We don’t know how long this—let’s not water it down with words like “conflict”—war will last. We also don’t want members of NATO to be dependent on a hostile foreign power for heating fuel.

If it takes longer than a year, fine, it’s something that should have been started years ago but there’s no other time available to us than the present and future, so let’s try the present. Solar+Wind+Batteries are a necessary but not sufficient part of a future energy plan for a large industrialized nation, so see if infrastructure that already exists today is usable and can be brought back online in a useful capacity for a bill of materials competitive with the alternatives.

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#27

Post by andbberger »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #21
choeger wrote: post #3

Being anti-nuclear is deeply engrained in the DNA of Germany's green party. Even more so than climate change. In fact, when the anti-nuclear movement started, climate change wasn't even a topic. In other words, the only thing that needs to happen is the German green party to admit a mistake in fighting nuclear power harder than fossile fuels...

There have been concerns about the risks of flooding to nuclear plants in Germany. https://energytransition.org/2013/06/german-nuclear-plants-f... Restarting nuclear isn't a bad idea, but it needs to be approached systematically and cautiously such that the risks from natural disasters and economic impacts are minimized, while also weighing the risks of continuing to support Russia. Unfortunately, many plants across…

> Restarting nuclear isn't a bad idea, but it needs to be approached systematically and cautiously such that the risks from natural disasters and economic impacts are minimized, while also weighing the risks of continuing to support Russia.

smells like $$$ and more delays. nuclear is already by far the safest method of power production, and emits far fewer radionuclides than coal, and those numbers are the old generation more dangerous pressurized water reactors.

water's lapping at our feet

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#28

Post by Gwypaas »

As long as you rely on the fallacy that nuclear is cheap to operate any initial costs can be handwaved away. Today renewables are cheaper than the marginal cost of nuclear, steam turbines and all machinery around them is simply that complex. They are a relic of an bygone era which tech enthusiasts for some reason continue clinging to as the magical solution to all our energy needs. Even in the face of reality.

A dollar spent on nuclear is a dollar that could have much more effect invested in renewables instead.

https://www.lazard.com/media/451885/grphx_lcoe-07.png

Re: Why Germany won’t keep its nuclear plants open

#30

Post by V__ »

renewiltord wrote: post #19
V__ wrote: post #11

> According to the text, they might even need a constitutional amendment. I am no expert in German law, but this strikes me as an unlikely requirement that would nevertheless be doable. A 2/3 majority is needed in both the Bundesrat (senate) and Bundestag (house). Not happening. > This is what they say: The existing nuclear reactors should have passed a lengthy security inspection in 2019, which they didn’t pass sinc…

Is security there the same as what we'd call security or is it like `securité` in French which is safety? I'm pretty sure the former is not that hard, and you can bypass it if there is a real national need. The real thing is that Germany has NS and NS2 and so they're happy to just guzzle gas.

They mean safety.

> The real thing is that Germany has NS and NS2 and so they're happy to just guzzle gas.

NS2 is dead. They stopped certification, dismissed all employes and it's sanctioned by Germany/EU and the U.S.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that Germany just had a major political shift after the election last year. The new government now has to work around the failures of the last 16 years, in which nothing really got done. It really is a rock and a hard place. Stop all Russian imports and kill the economy, or try to find other sources (LNG from Qatar) and switch as fast as possible. Both options are bad, and the minister is also not happy but has to make it work somehow.

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