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Steve's Google Platform rant

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Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#101

Post by david927 »

0x12 wrote: post #76
estel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's posted saying that it was meant to be available internally only, but didn't set his permissions correctly: https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/bwJ7kAEL...

It's a pity that he chose to withdraw it, it would be great if high profile people like Steve could say stuff like this and stand by it without having to fear for fall-out. After all, the big winners from a piece like this are Google and Amazon, Amazon obviously have some big problems (see Nirvana's post above) and the sooner it gets to the attention of their top level execs the better. Stuff like this can rot your c…

Wow. I know so little about the internal workings of Google and had such a good impression of them until today. The Wave post and now this -- not the post which was constructive and insightful, no company is perfect and it's important to examine flaws -- but for the decision to pull the post. Shameful. Steve is only wrong with one point: Google's reputation for arrogance seems actually well-deserved.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#102

Post by toyg »

johnyzee wrote: post #80
ajtaylor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.

Six weeks here in Denmark and a maximum work week of 37 hours. You have to wonder how we ever get anything done here...

Productivity and long hours are inversely proportional, in my book.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#103

Post by SandB0x »

nirvana wrote: post #79
j_col wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed for a support role at AWS last year, and that was bad enough. 1.5 hrs of a technical screening call, followed by 6 hrs straight (like, no breaks whatsoever) of face-to-face interviews with 6 separate people, only to be told that I needed to improve my networking skills, and that I should take some networking certifications and apply again next year. The beautiful thing? I never claimed to be a networkin…

"We set a high bar! B players hire C players! Only hire A players!" The way it works at amazon is, if anyone doesn't like you, you're out. It doesn't matter if its relevant or not. It doesn't matter if the person who doesn't like you knows nothing about programming. My boss- the one with the criminal justice degree- would often veto people because they "weren't good programmers". Of course, he had no clue who was a g…

> Since their process is completely arbitrary, sometimes they get really great people (god only knows why they stick around-- I think a lot of engineers don't really know their own worth) but they also get a lot of people who randomly rub the right people the right way and get hired. It was completely arbitrary, it seemed to me.

This seems to be true for the vast majority of businesses.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#104

Post by david927 »

rachelbythebay wrote: post #63
mziulu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's giving me 404 now...

Ha! Yep. I thought it was a bit too honest for a public post by someone who's still employed there. Of course, maybe he'll be moving on. His very first line was comparing his tenure at Amazon (6.5 years) to "and now I've been at Google for that long". I don't think that's a coincidence, even if he doesn't consciously realize it yet.

HN is always trying to fire Steve. He's frustrated that such a good company can be so bone-headed. Fair enough. He seems also pretty comfy there. That said...

Steve: if you're reading this, go do something better. Google is feeding your wallet and ego, but life is more important than that. Go. Do your own thing or join something like Khan Academy -- there are a million places you could put your talent that would make the world a better place.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#105

Post by ajtaylor »

johnyzee wrote: post #80
ajtaylor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.

Six weeks here in Denmark and a maximum work week of 37 hours. You have to wonder how we ever get anything done here...

Having the time to take off, and also the cultural push to take it all, makes a huge difference in productivity from my perspective.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#106

Post by bmj »

johnyzee wrote: post #80
ajtaylor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.

Six weeks here in Denmark and a maximum work week of 37 hours. You have to wonder how we ever get anything done here...

Out of curiosity, is there much of a start-up culture there? If so, do founders (and first employees) adhere to the same guidelines? At least here in the U.S., founding/working at a start-up basically assumes long-ish hours.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#107

Post by joelhaasnoot »

nirvana wrote: post #79
j_col wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed for a support role at AWS last year, and that was bad enough. 1.5 hrs of a technical screening call, followed by 6 hrs straight (like, no breaks whatsoever) of face-to-face interviews with 6 separate people, only to be told that I needed to improve my networking skills, and that I should take some networking certifications and apply again next year. The beautiful thing? I never claimed to be a networkin…

"We set a high bar! B players hire C players! Only hire A players!" The way it works at amazon is, if anyone doesn't like you, you're out. It doesn't matter if its relevant or not. It doesn't matter if the person who doesn't like you knows nothing about programming. My boss- the one with the criminal justice degree- would often veto people because they "weren't good programmers". Of course, he had no clue who was a g…

Sounds like the "screening day" I went through at a large multinational here in the Netherlands. 5 25 minute interviews, lots of talking, presentations, got an offer, just so they could decide "Oh yeah, we have people with nothing to do, sorry, can't hire you"

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#108

Post by 0x12 »

david927 wrote: post #101
0x12 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pity that he chose to withdraw it, it would be great if high profile people like Steve could say stuff like this and stand by it without having to fear for fall-out. After all, the big winners from a piece like this are Google and Amazon, Amazon obviously have some big problems (see Nirvana's post above) and the sooner it gets to the attention of their top level execs the better. Stuff like this can rot your c…

Wow. I know so little about the internal workings of Google and had such a good impression of them until today. The Wave post and now this -- not the post which was constructive and insightful, no company is perfect and it's important to examine flaws -- but for the decision to pull the post. Shameful. Steve is only wrong with one point: Google's reputation for arrogance seems actually well-deserved.

Well, the google PR people actually didn't do anything to tell him to withdraw the post, so that is his own decision.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#109

Post by gcp »

nirvana wrote: post #79
j_col wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed for a support role at AWS last year, and that was bad enough. 1.5 hrs of a technical screening call, followed by 6 hrs straight (like, no breaks whatsoever) of face-to-face interviews with 6 separate people, only to be told that I needed to improve my networking skills, and that I should take some networking certifications and apply again next year. The beautiful thing? I never claimed to be a networkin…

"We set a high bar! B players hire C players! Only hire A players!" The way it works at amazon is, if anyone doesn't like you, you're out. It doesn't matter if its relevant or not. It doesn't matter if the person who doesn't like you knows nothing about programming. My boss- the one with the criminal justice degree- would often veto people because they "weren't good programmers". Of course, he had no clue who was a g…

Note that much of what was said in this post and the parent applies to Google, too.

Re: Steve's Google Platform rant

#110

Post by j_col »

nirvana wrote: post #79
j_col wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed for a support role at AWS last year, and that was bad enough. 1.5 hrs of a technical screening call, followed by 6 hrs straight (like, no breaks whatsoever) of face-to-face interviews with 6 separate people, only to be told that I needed to improve my networking skills, and that I should take some networking certifications and apply again next year. The beautiful thing? I never claimed to be a networkin…

"We set a high bar! B players hire C players! Only hire A players!" The way it works at amazon is, if anyone doesn't like you, you're out. It doesn't matter if its relevant or not. It doesn't matter if the person who doesn't like you knows nothing about programming. My boss- the one with the criminal justice degree- would often veto people because they "weren't good programmers". Of course, he had no clue who was a g…

Yeah, the "bar raiser" is a concept that you will hear about when you interview there. Mine was the last guy after a very long day (sixth interviewer), who actually introduced himself to me as "the local bar raiser", and then got me up writing algorithms on a whiteboard for an hour. Like I said earlier, I can do that stuff but I'm no network guy.

> How many people do you think want to interview with Amazon again after going thru a 6 hour process like that?

Not me that’s for sure, and I thought it was very arrogant of them at the time to suggest that I go off and getting some network training on my own time and expense and apply again next year. Like I’ve nothing better to do.

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