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You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

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Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#301

Post by yathaid »

abel_ wrote: post #266
Gigachad wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess the hardware switches and key combos went away because they are too confusing for users. I remember constant complaints of "Internet doesn't work" because the wifi hardware switch was turned off. And as the saying goes, if the majority of users are using it wrong, it was designed wrong. I think Apple picked the right middle ground by making access to the mic and camera a permissions request as well…

The problem with software-controlled permissions is that nation-state actors (who have unbounded resources) can snoop on your private matters with significantly greater ease. At least with a hardware switch, someone would have to physically intercept the air waves in the room you're in. In software, the surface for OS-level vulnerabilities is massive, and state sponsored mass surveillance just gets easier. Sadly, thi…

This line of argument is bikeshedding at it's finest.

If Mossad is out to get you, they are going to get you, no matter what you do. The threat model for 99.999% of the population doesn't include bespoke attacks from three letter agencies.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#302

Post by unfocussed_mike »

cogman10 wrote: post #254
ElemenoPicuares wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that journalists have little excuse. Except wanting anyone, ever to talk to them again about something controversial.

I disagree. Bob Woodward has gotten PLENTY of high level politicians to talk to him candidly even though he's publishing what they are saying often in an unflattering light. If someone as famous as the watergate guy can STILL get politicians to talk to him, what does a random journalist have to fear? I mean, FFS, the gamer nexus guy got newegg to talk to him even after blasting them about ripping him off and letting…

> Bob Woodward has gotten PLENTY of high level politicians to talk to him candidly even though he's publishing what they are saying often in an unflattering light.

Woodward is absolutely one of the few exceptions, if not the only one.

He publishes on a long timescale with dozens of sources, not a short timescale with one or two.

So everyone knows the story will come out but not immediately, and everyone knows everyone talks to Bob.

But like it or not, most (not all) of the people he talks to have less to lose, because they are at or close to the apex of power in DC; there will always be jobs for them elsewhere in the USA, in a thinktank or on a board somewhere.

(It's also worth noting that Woodward's most famous source was anonymous for essentially his entire life)

In the real world outside seats of government, talking to a journalist on the record about stuff you should not often means you are the single source -- the only person who made the unflattering or damaging story possible, in a story that maybe won't wait even a week to be published.

It puts you out there on your own, gets you fired, makes it difficult to get immediately re-hired, and I suspect for an American with a family in an at-will state makes telling the truth on the record a luxury they can't afford.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#304

Post by beermonster »

I use objective-see’s app Oversight [1] for MacOS.

OverSight monitors a mac's mic and webcam, alerting the user when the internal mic is activated, or whenever a process accesses the webcam.

Have found it very useful whilst using videoconferencing apps.

[1] https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#305

Post by ls15 »

anticensor wrote: post #294
ls15 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams works fine for me on Edge. "If you don't want to install our app, you can just install our browser."

Except it works when you supply the Edge user agent on Firefox, unlike Google services which are much harder to work around.

Define "it works".

For me, with this method, text chat works a bit (often forgets chat history on reload). Notifications get dropped all the time. No video conferencing at all. Sometimes I have to discuss with colleagues, why my teams acts weird.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#306

Post by boomlinde »

gwbas1c wrote: post #106
Isthatablackgsd wrote: post #97

As a Deaf person, the notification annoyed the heck out of me and there are not even an option to disable the notification. I muted my mic because I am Deaf and I don't use my voice to communicate with my fellow Deaf friends over Zoom/Teams. And there is no option to disable Zoom joining-room audio (the one that when you join the room, Zoom present the option to ask which microphone you want to enable). Why would I n…

Then why mute yourself? Even more interesting: Why do you prefer to sign over video instead of typing? Are there forms of expression that are more natural that way?

Why do you prefer to talk over video instead of typing?

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#307

Post by swarnie »

hans_castorp wrote: post #303

It's one of the reasons I have a headset with a mechanical switch to turn off the microphone.

Batch file on the desktop to disable the devices

On a call - "We're live" - always assume the camera and mic are hot

Off a call - "Its dead Jim"

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#308

Post by wodenokoto »

They really need to keep reading mike input. When you start talking on mute, it is nice that the app reminds you that you are mute (although they could do better voice detection)

I wished that the whole conference app would be red on mute and green on unmute and would pulse (in both states) to the audio input level.

Is my keyboard typing loud? Show me that I’m sending loud noises to all my peers.

Make it dead obvious that I’m talking to a muted mike.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#309

Post by PeterStuer »

pmoriarty wrote: post #165
SkyPuncher wrote: post #10

I feel like they're trying to make an insidious suggestion about the usage of these. IMO, there's likely a good reason - user experience. At a hardware level, grabbing the microphone can take time. Even worse that timing is inconsistent across devices, workloads, etc. That leads to a bad experience when unmuting and needing to delay your commentary. The solution to this is to keep the microphone on, but mute at a sof…

"if you really care about privacy, consider getting a hardware mute microphone" Even if you get an external microphone which can be muted, if you're on a laptop you'll still have an internal microphone which can't be muted except through software. What we really need are laptops sold without microphones and cameras. Then you can just use external ones only, and be sure that no one's listening/looking when you unplug…

Technically any speaker can also potentially be used as a microphone.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#310

Post by coldtea »

LadyCailin wrote: post #273
coldtea wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, keeps your ass safe from being sued...

Anybody can sue you at any time for any reason. For libel and slander cases though, telling the truth is a valid defense.

>Anybody can sue you at any time for any reason.

Which is neither here, nor there, as some are more likely to sue you than others.

>For libel and slander cases though, telling the truth is a valid defense.

Which is neither here, nor there, again. Not everybody wants the hassle of going through a lawsuit or the time and money costs associated, even if they have a "valid defense".

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